Interview with Nathaniel Whittemore, host of the top-ranked AI podcast The AI Daily Brief and founder/CEO of Superintelligent, about how he keeps up with AI full-time. Covers how he curates AI news using X bookmarks, Google News, Feedly, and Perplexity; the workflow behind producing two daily podcasts (300+ episodes); using LLMs to structure thoughts; AI features in Descript; content generation tools like Hoppy Copy and SEO.ai; and tips on using Midjourney for YouTube thumbnails, along with actionable advice on getting value from AI today. # Channel Presentation Observations — "How a Top Podcaster Rides the AI Wave - Ep. 28 with Nathaniel Whittemore" ## Explicit Self-Descriptions (Creator Claims) - **Show identity as interview format focused on AI workflows:** Host introduces the guest, Daniel/Nathaniel Whittemore, as host of the AI Daily Brief — > "You are the host of the AI Daily Brief, a daily news and analysis podcast on AI, which is consistently one of the top-ranked or maybe the top-ranked AI podcast in the technology charts." - **Stated episode purpose:** The host frames the episode scope explicitly: > "What we decided that we were going to do today is go through how you think about making a podcast every day with AI. So go from sort of show concept to actually having it out there." - **Subscription call-to-action (explicit but clearly playful/satirical):** The closing segment is an exaggerated subscribe pitch: > "folks, you absolutely, positively have to smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I… it's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship." (Note: the over-the-top tone suggests a running bit rather than a literal CTA; the show name "AI and I" is mentioned here.) ## Intended Audience (Observable Evidence) - **AI-curious knowledge workers and content creators**, not technical researchers. The guest notes the show's framing: > "I'm coming at AI from a broad societal and business level, not a technical level." - **People trying to integrate AI into practical workflows:** Recurring framing around small efficiency wins — e.g., "20 minutes a day across an average work year is something like 2 and 1/2 weeks that you could save" — and discussion of podcaster/writer workflows throughout. - **Audience familiarity with AI discourse assumed:** References to Midjourney, Perplexity, Claude artifacts, GPT-4, and the Microsoft/LinkedIn knowledge-worker study are made without basic explanation, indicating an audience already following AI news. ## Claimed Scope of the Channel - **Interview-based exploration of how practitioners use AI**, demonstrated by structure: general AI-value framework → research tools (Twitter bookmarks, Google News, Feedly, Perplexity) → scripting/outlining with LLMs → recording/editing (Descript) → repurposing/copy tools (Spiral, SEO.ai, Happy Copy) → image generation (Midjourney) for thumbnails. - **Promotional/institutional context surfaced by the host:** The host describes his own company Every: > "when you subscribe to Every you get Every you get Spiro [Spiral] and you get Lex our AI document writer app" This indicates the show operates alongside a media/product business (Every) and serves partly as a channel for that ecosystem. ## Demonstrated Presentation Patterns (Observable, Not Claimed) - **Conversational, long-form, unscripted interview style** with tangents, humor, and mutual audience-building ("I love your podcast", "shows like yours are so important"). - **Host's recurring comedic bit about ChatGPT adoption:** > "I think ChatGPT is like sex in high school… everybody is talking about it but very few people are actually like doing it." - **Positioning between AI hype and doom:** The host articulates a middle-ground stance: > "there's no one in the middle just being like hey like this is actually really useful. It's not going to it doesn't do everything on its own yet." - **Screen-sharing demonstrations** of tools (Feedly, Perplexity prompts, Happy Copy) — the show demonstrates tools live rather than only describing them. - **Host's thesis-oriented framing:** Excel-as-analog-for-ChatGPT argument and the "unbundling" thesis about purpose-built AI tools, showing the channel favors frameworks and analogies over pure news. ## Claims vs. Demonstration Distinction - Guest stats (e.g., "15 or 20,000 downloads an episode," "500 tutorials," "2,000 sign-ups in the first 2 days" for Spiral) are **second-party claims repeated in conversation**, not independently verified in the material. - The host's own claims about his team, ghost writer, and tools (Riverside, teleprompter, Spiral, Lex) are directly stated first-person evidence of how his content operation works. # Delivery Observation Document **Video:** *How a Top Podcaster Rides the AI Wave - Ep. 28 with Nathaniel Whittemore* ## Speakers Two distinct voices are present: the **host** (who introduces "Daniel" and mentions building "Spiro"/"Spiral") and the **guest** (who hosts the AI Daily Brief and runs Superintelligent). The transcript is unlabeled, so speaker attribution below is based on content markers and carries some uncertainty. --- ## Tone and Overall Style ### Guest: Expansive, framework-driven explainer - Long, multi-clause sentences with self-corrections and restarts: > "So, um kind of maybe maybe just lay lay out for us um like the the the background of of how you think about this." - Frequently zooms out from specifics to general frameworks: "we'll try to abstract a little from just specifically, you know, podcast to a broader content creation process." - Emphatic repetition for stress: > "You are never, and I mean never, going back to the way that you used to do things." > "They would have to pry Midjourney out of my cold dead hands." ### Host: Enthusiastic validator and elaborator - Repeatedly affirms before adding his own take: "I absolutely love that," "100%," "Totally," "That's amazing." - Uses vivid analogies and humor: > "I think ChatGPT is like sex in high school. Like um everybody is talking about it but very few people are actually like doing it." > "It's like the dodgeball quote, like if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball." - Casual intensifiers: "it's like stunning how good it is," "it's so good," "I love that." --- ## Vocabulary and Recurring Phrases - **"you know"** — extremely frequent for both speakers, functioning as a connector mid-sentence. - **Restated numbers as evidence** — the guest twice cites the same study with identical figures ("75% of knowledge workers... 78% of them are not disclosing"), a pattern of leaning on named studies (Microsoft and LinkedIn). - **Grade-school grading metaphor** — the guest rates LLM style imitation: "I would say that I give them a D+ to C- so far." - **Repeated three-part structures** — the guest lists things in threes: "It's going to be interesting, it's going to be dynamic, it's going to be exploratory." - Both use **"super"** as an intensifier constantly: "super fun," "super basic," "super valuable," "super premium," "super creative experimenters." --- ## Teaching Habits ### Guest structures content as guided walkthroughs - Announces structure explicitly: "So, the first area where that's sort of a contrast is..."; "Next step is the big one. It's the recording, right?" - Live-demos tools while narrating: "let's actually do this where I'll pull Perplexity back up and give it a try... I'll use the same prompt." - Signals completeness as a goal: "two other AI features that I wanted to call out just for completeness." - Offers caveats and boundaries around tools ("this is not necessarily just strict scripting"; "this is particularly based on the use case here"). ### Host asks short, specific follow-up questions - "What's your taste? Like, what's the thing that makes you go, 'Ooh, I need to bookmark that'?" - "How does it actually work? Can we can we do like a... an email campaign or like a social post?" ### Host shares personal anecdotes as counter-evidence - The story of his team member whose "emails became perfect" after ChatGPT, and the Ali Abdaal conversation about scripted vs. unscripted videos — a recurring habit of corroborating guest claims with a named example. --- ## Communication Patterns - **Turn-taking with rapid back-channel agreement**: "Absolutely," "Totally," "Yep," "100%," "I'm with you" appear throughout as bridge tokens. - **Guest ends segments by looping back to earlier themes**: "this is actually a perfect segue and reinforces a lot of what we talked about at the beginning." - **Host self-interrupts to refocus the conversation**: "I I know I completely derailed you from from the original AI thing you were going to share"; "I want to get back to your workflow in a second." - **Both use hypothetical second-person framing** to teach: "if you've ever if you had to create YouTube thumbnails, right?" (guest); "if you're tracking the theme of like how government and AI interact..." (host). --- ## Isolated Moments vs. Stable Patterns **Stable (repeatedly observable):** - "You know" frequency, affirmations ("Totally"/"100%"), the guest's framework-then-example structure, the host's anecdote-backed validation. **Isolated / low-repetition (treat with caution):** - The dramatic closing outro ("smash that like button... Dan, I'm absolutely, hopelessly in love with you") is a one-time stylistic shift, likely a produced segment; it does not reflect the conversational delivery elsewhere. - The guest's Magic: The Gathering card-design tangent is a single extended digression, not a recurring habit. **Uncertainty note:** Because the transcript lacks speaker labels, individual quotes are attributed by contextual clues (e.g., who is asked "where can they find you" vs. who answers), and a small number of attributions could be misassigned. # Position & Reasoning Record: "How a Top Podcaster Rides the AI Wave — Ep. 28" ## Speaker Identification - **Host**: Dan Shipper — host of the show ("AI and I"), builder of Spiral and Lex at Every. Identified via the outro ("Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship") and his first-person discussion of building Spiral. - **Guest**: Host of the *AI Daily Brief* podcast and co-founder/CEO of Superintelligent. **Note on naming tension**: the video title metadata identifies the guest as **Nathaniel Whittemore**, but in the transcript the host repeatedly addresses him as **"Daniel."** This discrepancy is preserved as-is; the guest is referred to below as "the guest (AI Daily Brief host)." --- ## 1. How Value from AI Actually Materializes ### Guest's core framework: small, repeated efficiencies - Most short-term value for most people comes not from "big capacity-changing" AI uses but from **"some random thing that's super basic that just saves them 20 minutes"** on a daily task. - Stated arithmetic: **20 minutes a day ≈ 2.5 weeks per work year** saved. - Claims media coverage is "so breathless" that people expect their job to disappear overnight, which distorts expectations. ### Host's agreement and extension - Agrees there's a missing middle ground: AI companies brand around "autonomous agents," critics claim doom, and "there's no one in the middle just being like, hey, this is actually really useful." - Frames AI as **a tool requiring learning**, not a "magical cure-all." --- ## 2. The Knowledge-Sharing Bottleneck ### Guest's claim: workers are "smuggling AI into work" - Cites a **Microsoft/LinkedIn study**: 75% of knowledge workers use AI at work, but **78% of them do not disclose it** — attributed by the guest to corporate policy fears. - Reasoning: once someone experiences an AI win (e.g., image generation for YouTube thumbnails), "they would have to pry Midjourney out of my cold dead hands" — so they hide usage to avoid being told to stop. - Argues this creates an **"artificial barrier"** to insight-sharing, since in normal diffusion "a small number of super creative experimenters and tinkerers" figure things out and share them. ### Host's reaction - Adds that **stigma** in some communities also suppresses sharing, alongside the fear of losing access. - Offers his recurring bit: "ChatGPT is like sex in high school — everybody's talking about it but very few people are actually doing it," then concedes the guest's nuance: "more people are doing it than you think. They're just not talking about it because they're sort of ashamed." - Both agree "both actually can be true depending on the community." --- ## 3. Who Benefits Most from AI Writing Tools ### Guest's pattern: AI fills skills gaps rather than augmenting experts - **Digital marketing** is the clearest early adopter (AI already integrated into ad platforms). - Claims people who are **primarily writers use LLMs less** than people for whom writing is a secondary, disliked task. - Explicit position: AI "is not going to replace someone who's a great writer" — citing the host's essay-writing team as an example ("I would bet zero" use ChatGPT to rewrite). - Argues this is another "casualty" of not talking about AI enough: writers conclude "it can't do it as well" and miss that others in their org benefit hugely. ### Host's supporting anecdotes - Team member (English as second language): after ChatGPT, "his emails became perfect," and after heavy use he now writes well **without** the tool. - Host uses ChatGPT for "micro tasks" in writing, not article drafting; personally prefers **Claude** for writing ("I think Claude's a better writer") while ChatGPT suits certain tasks. ### Guest's parallel case: website generators - A 20-second Framer generation is objectively worse than custom WordPress work, but instant — "unbelievable tools" for non-builders, while professional web designers remain "super premium." - Frames this as **filling skills gaps rather than augmenting expertise** — a pattern he says "holds in a bunch of other areas." --- ## 4. Podcasting Workflow (Guest's Actual Practice) ### Show structure - *AI Daily Brief* = two daily YouTube videos: ~5 min headline news + ~10 min deeper analysis; also runs a second daily podcast plus Superintelligent. ### Topic sourcing - **Twitter bookmarks** all day; cares as much about "the discussion around" news as the news itself. Bookmarking also functions as a "mental trigger." - **Google News**, deliberately contra the AI-search trend: paging through many results for long-tail comprehensiveness — "summarization is the enemy of that." - **Feedly AI feeds**: notes out-of-the-box use suits his voracious "everything about AI" use case; imagines a power-user version could be very valuable. - **Perplexity**: for background refreshers (e.g., "Give the key details" of the Biden AI executive order) and for reconstructing long-running argument threads (e.g., whether the transformer architecture can lead to AGI); values sourced answers for fast retrieval of original material. ### Deliberately unscripted format - Chose to do the show **completely unscripted** for energy and time; organizes **browser tabs in order** as the show structure, grouping discourse into themes (e.g., for the Ilya/Safe Superintelligence episode: OpenAI contrast/talent rush, celebration of Ilya, skepticism about the business model). - Host draws a parallel to YouTuber **Ali Abdaal**: no correlation found between scripting/editing level and performance; his top video was completely unscripted. ### Guest's stated editorial philosophy - What elevates content is "a little bit of a point of view or a theme"; the show is "not a bully pulpit" — primarily surfacing how the world is reacting. - His one original framing on the Ilya episode (offered tentatively): investors may believe superintelligence's "multi-trillion-dollar" upside makes any intermediate business model a distraction. **Qualification preserved**: "I don't know even if I believe this. I just think it's an interesting framework." --- ## 5. Scripting, Outlining, and Style Imitation ### Guest's assessment - LLMs can help with **outlines** (demonstrated a Perplexity prompt: "Outline in four sections what I should talk about") and with **scripting when precision/time constraints demand it** (30–60 second points). - On imitating his own writing style: grades LLMs **"D+ to C-"** — "distinctly more like me" than baseline, but not a substitute for one's own voice. Tried Gemini, Claude, and a custom GPT. ### Host's counter-position (qualified) - Found **Claude specifically** (not ChatGPT, not Gemini) can replicate his voice **~80%** for *repeatable transformation tasks* — e.g., transcript → tweet — given past example pairs plus a style guide. - Invites skepticism: "you should be skeptical of that because… mostly LLMs are not good at this." - Announced **Spiral**, a purpose-built tool for this use case; ~2,000 sign-ups in first two days. ### Guest's synthesis: the "ChatGPT wrapper" reconsidered - Argues early "wrapper" startups were often **customizations for specific repeated use cases** needing different specs, model tuning, or UX — citing Perplexity (use-case-specific UX) and Claude Artifacts (separating output from instruction fields) as examples. ### Host's Excel thesis - ChatGPT's best software analog is **Excel**: easy entry, "progressively reveals its complexity," taught a new computing paradigm, then was **unbundled into SaaS**. - Position: ChatGPT wrappers failed early because users hadn't yet developed workflows worth unbundling; timing is why Spiral works now but wouldn't "a year ago." ### Guest on venture-backability context - The "wrapper" pejorative is specific to **venture-scale returns**; AI is making viable **non-venture-backed models** for sophisticated products — "AI is solving the problem that's creating opportunities for builders on top of AI." - Host adds: Spiral built end-to-end in ~2 months, first version in 2 days, ~$10k total. --- ## 6. Tools Walkthrough (Guest's Demonstrations & Qualifications) ### Descript - Used daily for recording (floating-head screen capture) and **text-based video editing** (edit transcript, edit video); democratizes editing vs. timeline tools like Premiere Pro. - Guest initially self-edited to learn it and as backup for a daily show. ### Filler-word removal - "Really good"; "tends not to over-edit" — **with a stated caveat**: ticks like "like" sometimes carry actual meaning. ### Eye contact tool - **"A little zombie-ish" when the speaker fills the frame**; "gangbusters" for small floating-head overlays. Better than nothing for scripted openers, but less than a teleprompter for full quality. - Host: just bought a teleprompter for ad reads; the guest agrees teleprompting is currently "way better" but likely to be matched within ~2 years. - Limitation noted: the more the head moves or tilts down, the worse the result. ### Promotion / repurposing tools - **SEO.ai** (SEO-focused companion content), **Happy Copy** (email/newsletter/social copy) — cited as examples of purpose-built LLM tools; Happy Copy couldn't be demoed due to paywall. - Guest's candid admission: by the time edits return, he has to re-read transcripts to remember what the episode was about — "dragging myself back into the world of that piece of content is painful" — so repurposing is a prime AI use case even for good writers. - Host agrees: this task is "simultaneously hard but also a little bit brainless… that combination is sort of rare" — the motivation for building Spiral. ### Subscription fatigue (aside) - Guest observes AI tools are "training people to pay for software again," but users hit limits on $20–30/month subscriptions; Superintelligent's most in-demand playlist is "Free tools only." - Host's response: Every bundles Spiral and Lex into one subscription; guest counters that the biggest barrier is **the trying**, and Superintelligent is negotiating discount codes in exchange for coverage. --- ## 7. Image Generation & Creative Optimism ### Guest's conversion story - His AI "conversion experience" was **image generators**, not ChatGPT: his brother-in-law's Stable Diffusion illustrations (via an "Unstable Diffusion" Discord server) for a fantasy novel, circa December 2022; he pitched his brother-in-law on a consultancy (declined). - ~90% of his Midjourney history is **thumbnail/cover experimentation**. ### Prompting advice (with qualifications) - **"The more that you let AI wander, the better the result"** — precision is hard; vagueness helps. Short prompts; vibe words for style (illustration vs. line drawing vs. Pixar-style). - Qualification: this openness works *because* his thumbnail brand guidelines govern layout, not art. - For **consistency**, anchor on reference points: tried "1700s paintings," Hudson River School, and specifically the artist **Winslow Homer** for a custom Magic: The Gathering "early Americana / Salem witch trials" themed cube project. - Concedes "consistency in image generation, we could have a whole separate conversation on." ### Guest's three-part optimism 1. **More people with tools of creation is simply better** — "denying gatekeeping access to creation does not make the people who can create it better." 2. Acknowledges unresolved **training-data ethics** — "societal and legal conversations," with different legal systems reaching different answers — but argues human artists remain the source of styles and become "benchmark and reference points," effectively "fan fiction for their favorite artists." 3. **Jevons-style prediction**: either we make the same stuff cheaper, or we make more stuff — "if code takes 1/10 of the time, we're not going to have 1/10 of the coders, we're going to code 10 times as much stuff." More of everything, including more good and more bad. ### Host's alignment (with caveats retained) - "Exactly the same viewpoint" — we will make and want more; more creative power is net good. - Caveats he preserves: "we need new ethics for this kind of thing," and "there are certain people we need to take care of." - Also observes AI lets people "start on first base" and taste creative competence before having skill — while noting this doesn't devalue the underlying skills. --- ## 8. Unresolved Tensions (Preserved, Not Smoothed) - **Speaker-name discrepancy**: title metadata (Nathaniel Whittemore) vs. transcript address ("Daniel"). - **Style imitation**: guest grades LLMs D+/C−; host finds Claude ~80% effective — a live disagreement, each with qualifications. - **Scripted vs. unscripted content**: guest deliberately unscripted; host has just invested in a teleprompter for scripted reads — different choices for different constraints, not reconciled. - **Guest's Ilya investor-framework** is explicitly tentative and not asserted as belief. - **Training-data ethics** is acknowledged by both as unresolved. # Speaker Attribution & Provenance Record **Video:** *How a Top Podcaster Rides the AI Wave — Ep. 28 with Nathaniel Whittemore* **Video ID:** `01a0f15b-0ac4-7c9d-9c1e-7d23eb79ee00` ## Speakers & Roles ### Primary Speakers (two-person interview) - **Host / Creator — Dan Shipper** - Host of this episode (identified by name in the closing segment: *"Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship"*). - Identified in-transcript facts: runs **Every**, hosts the show **"AI and I"**, records with **Riverside**, built the tool **Spiral** (launched ~2 days before recording) and **Lex** (AI document writer), has a ghost writer, employs a non-native-English team member (unnamed). - **Guest — identified in title as Nathaniel Whittemore** - Addressed as **"Daniel"** by the host in the transcript ("Daniel, welcome to the show") — **naming discrepancy between transcript address and video title metadata; unresolved**. - Self-identified facts: host of **The AI Daily Brief** podcast/YouTube channel, co-founder & CEO of **Superintelligent** (bsuper.ai), posts as **@nlw**, runs **two daily podcasts**. ### Other Voice - **AI-generated narration (unclear which speaker triggered it)** — delivers the closing subscribe/like appeal and the line *"Dan, I'm absolutely, hopelessly in love with you."* No human speaker explicitly claims this text. ## Promotional Segments — Flagged - **Closing subscribe promo** (end of transcript): like/subscribe push for "AI and I," hyperbolic praise of the show and Dan Shipper. **Promotional; likely AI-generated demo.** - **Spiral promotion** (host, mid-episode): launch announcement, "~2,000 sign-ups in first 2 days." **Promotional/self-promotional.** - **Superintelligent promotion** (guest): repeated descriptions of platform (500 tutorials, free-tools playlist) and handles. **Self-promotional.** - **Every bundle promotion** (host): subscribing to Every includes Spiral and Lex. **Promotional.** ## Referenced Sources & Third-Party Claims - **Microsoft/LinkedIn study**: 75% of knowledge workers use AI at work; 78% don't disclose it. Cited by guest; study itself not linked. - **Ali Abdaal** (third party, per host): found no correlation between scripting/editing level and video performance; his top video was unscripted. - **Elon Musk tweet** quoted/paraphrased by guest: AI startups "doomed to become the opposite of its name." - **News events referenced by guest**: Ilya Sutskever's Safe Superintelligence announcement; Dell/xAI stock move; Chinese AI startups; Claude 3.5 & Artifacts; Mike Krieger as Anthropic CPO; Biden AI executive order; Galileo–Replit partnership; Galileo text-to-UI; "Auto" table-based research tool (announced that morning, per guest). ## Tools/Products Discussed (attributed to speaker recommending) - **Guest**: Descript (filler-word removal, eye-contact tool), Perplexity, Feedly AI feeds, Google News, Midjourney, Stable Diffusion / "Unstable Diffusion" Discord, SEO.ai, HappyCopy (paywalled — demo unavailable). - **Host**: Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, Spiral, Lex, Riverside, teleprompter. ## Availability & Evidence Limits - **HappyCopy demo blocked by paywall** — explicitly stated; could not be shown live. - **Unstable Diffusion Discord** — existence "if it's even still there" per guest; unverified. - **No curated metadata supplied** beyond title; no comment availability info; no timestamps in transcript. - Guest's screen-share portions (Feedly, Perplexity prompts, Midjourney gallery) are described verbally but not verifiable from transcript text. In the real world, the way that things work is that there is some very small number of people, the sort of super creative experimenters and tinkerers who spend hours and hours and hours figuring these things out just because they actually like the joy of tinkering. And then they share what works. And I think that part of why this isn't happening right now is that so many people are not sharing what they figured out that they're doing. And a big part of that is actually policy in the corporate sector. So there was a study that recently came out Microsoft and LinkedIn that found 75% of knowledge workers are using AI at work. But 78% of them are not disclosing it. They're not talking about it. They're basically smuggling AI into work. Daniel, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to be here. I'm psyched to have you. We've been trying to set this up for a long time. I love your podcast. For people who don't know, you are the host of the AI Daily Brief, a daily news and analysis podcast on AI, which is consistently one of the top-ranked or maybe the top-ranked AI podcast in the technology charts. You do like 15 or 20,000 downloads an episode, which I am jealous. And you are also the co-founder and CEO of Superintelligent, which is a fun and fast platform for learning AI. And I I checked out Superintelligent before the episode and it looks awesome. So thanks for joining. Yeah, no, it's it's great to be here. I think this show is super fun and I'm glad to be hanging out. Sweet. So what we decided that we were going to do today is go through how you think about making a podcast every day with AI. So go from sort of show concept to actually having it out there in the the and and what you what AI tools and prompts and all that kind of stuff you use to do that. So, um kind of maybe maybe just lay lay out for us um like the the background of of how you think about this. Sure. So, um Okay, so a couple things about this. One is a general framework for how to think about getting value out of AI right now. You and I were just talking about this, but one of the things we found, so super intelligent at this point, we've only been um live the the platform has been live since April, but we have about 500 tutorials across just a huge range of topics. Usually these are video tutorial, they each come with a sort of project that that goes with them where people can actually go go use the tools. And one of the things that people are regularly surprised by is that although some number of them are these like big capacity-changing things like text to UI or, you know, write an app in 5 seconds, where a lot of people are going to get the most value in the short term is some random thing that's that's super basic that just saves them 20 minutes a time 20 minutes at a time on a on a thing they do every day, right? 20 minutes a day across an average work year is something like 2 and 1/2 weeks that you could save. And, you know, our our the media coverage of AI is so breathless that people are are kind of trained to think that's like they wake up one day and their job's gone and and it's not exactly playing out like that. And so, if you think in these terms of where are these small efficiencies that I can win back that in the aggregate make a big difference, then it it I think it allows you to start to think about all of your different processes and workflows through that lens and ask, is there a way to AI-ify that that is is, you know, going to make something much easier for me? Or, you know, maybe it's not just a time thing, it's it's makes it better because I hate writing copy or whatever it is. I absolutely love that. Like I I just think the breathlessness you're you're so right about it. It's like on the one hand there's the AI companies and a lot of them are sort of branding themselves as like autonomous agents like whatever because it it it feels so sexy and on the other hand like everyone else is like it's going to ruin the economy and jobs and it's going to kill us all or whatever and there's no one in the middle just being like hey like this is actually really useful. It's not going to it doesn't do everything on its own yet. Um and so I think when a lot of people try AI for the first time they're like well this sucks it's not it's not like doing the thing I expected to and it's like actually no it's that's because it's like a tool that you need to learn how to use. It's not like a just magical cure-all for everything but if you know how to use it it's really powerful and yeah like um maybe it doesn't do your entire job for you right now but like those 20 minute things here and there like it change it really changes what work you can do and what you can get done in a day and in a year and I think that's super powerful. Absolutely and I I and I think that we're still so at the beginning of you know we're at a stage in AI's development where we're basically asking everyone to go figure out how to reinvent their own workflows and that's so not how things work in the real world in the in the in the in the real world the way that things work is that there is some very small number of people who are the sort of super creative experimenters and tinkerers who spend hours and hours and hours figuring these things out just because they actually like the joy of tinkering and then they share what works and I think that part of why this isn't happening right now is that so many people are not sharing what they've figured out that they're doing which is why I think you know shows like yours are so important and a big part of that is actually policy in the corporate sector right? So there was a a study that recently came out Microsoft and LinkedIn that found um 75% of knowledge workers are using AI at work but 78% of them are not disclosing it. They're not talking about it. They're basically smuggling AI into work because they don't want to be they don't want to be told that they're not allowed to do it anymore because this is the thing that's so magical. Like if you've ever if you had to create YouTube um thumbnails, right? Before Midjourney or DALL-E or something like that. And then you get to use an image generator as part of that process. You are never, and I mean never, going back to the way that you used to do things. It would just be insane. You would have to They would have to pry Midjourney out of my cold dead hands. And so the natural tendency then is for someone who has figured that out is they don't want to be put in a position where someone's going to tell them that they can't do that. So I think we actually have an artificial barrier right now even in terms of how these insights are are flowing between people that is is really sort of undermining how much um benefit this this stuff can have. But I think that that's breaking down a little bit now. And again, you know, shows shows like yours I think are a big part of that. I think that's so interesting. I hadn't really thought of that that people just actually are not sharing for like, you know, maybe there's they don't want to get it taken away or there's also maybe like a little bit of a stigma depending on what community you're a part of to be using this. Like I thought it is also definitely a thing. And yeah, that's definitely what I what I wanted to do about like with the show. Like one of my little one of my little my little bits I do is like I think ChatGPT is like sex in high school. Like um everybody is talking about it but very few people are actually like doing it, you know? Um and uh maybe maybe what you're like the nuance that you're adding to this is like more people are doing it than you think. They're just not talking about it because they're sort of ashamed, you know? Um and I think I think both actually can be true depending on the the the community or the group of people you're you're talking about. 100%. That analogy actually completely holds. Yeah. I'm sort of curious like for you, you know, you're you're running Superintelligent, you're teaching people um how to use AI in a practical way. Like where do you Where are you seeing you know before we get into this specific podcast stuff like where are you seeing like the most power-ups, the most level-ups for people with the least amount of effort? I think that there are categories of roles are naturally the the um the the utility and use cases are a little bit more apparent right away. Digital marketing is probably the easiest example where they're already living inside different tool platforms. If you're using something like uh you know, Facebook self-serve platform or Google self-serve app platform, they're integrating AI for you into the you know, the asset generation process. So, that's an area where it's you know, it's just it's such an obvious place to use it. You know, for copy and things like We'll get into a bunch of this. So, that's one area. I think um anything with writing people are starting to figure out if and where uh a chat GPT or an LLM is is valuable. Although, I think actually this is another area where there's a little bit of nuance. If someone is primarily a writer, like or a primary part of their role is writing, they actually I think tend to use these tools less than someone who is not primarily a writer, but still everyone has to do a meaningful amount of writing as part of as part of their sort of you know, especially knowledge worker type jobs. And I think a lot of where the benefit is is actually now it's for people who that was like nails on a chalkboard for before and they can make it faster, it's better. It's not going to replace someone who's a great writer. I mean, you guys write amazing essays. Like how many of your people are using chat GPT to rewrite those things? I would I would bet zero. Maybe they're using it for brainstorming or something else, but you know, it's just it's just different. But again, this is another I think casualty of the fact that we're not talking about it enough is people think, "Well, I'm a writer and chat GPT can't do it as well." It's like no, it's like no, it can't, but there's a ton of people probably inside your organization who don't like writing for whom this is a huge benefit. I I you're totally right. Like um I have someone on my team who he's incredible. Um and when he joined, it was a couple years ago, he was he was much more junior and he speaks incre- he speaks great English, but like English is his second language and you could kind of tell in his emails and in his writing that it was his second language and the minute ChatGPT came out, like his emails became perfect and it was like it was amazing and now like he's used ChatGPT so much for that that like he can write better emails um without having to use it anymore. Um and yeah, and I also think you're right. Like, I don't use ChatGPT to like write my articles, but I do use it for many micro tasks in the process of writing my articles. Totally. Yep. And and that I think is like super valuable and and honestly uh probably I actually use Claude much more cuz I think Claude's a better writer, but ChatGPT is good for certain certain certain writing tasks, but Yep. I think you're I think you're right. It's sort of like a it's it's back to that like um that thing where uh people are expecting too much of it uh like to do too much all at once. Like, oh, write an article for me all at once. And like, yeah, if you're not a professional writer, like having it do that could be really helpful because like the quality level that you need to get to is like lower, but if you're a professional writer and you're saying like, "Please write an entire article for me." you're going to hate it, you know? Um but but you can use it as a tool um and and that can actually like help yeah, save those like 20 minutes instead of like going and looking up some like complicated topic you have to like summarize, you can just have ChatGPT summarize it for you and then like put it into your article, which happens all the time. 100%. I I also think that this pattern of filling skills gaps rather than strictly augmenting things that you're already an expert at holds in a bunch of other areas as well. I don't know if you've ever experimented with any of the AI website generators or anything like that, but there's there's literally zero doubt that the results that you're going to get from a two, you know, 20-second generation from Framer or something like that are not going to be as good as sitting down customizing WordPress templates to be exactly what you want, inserting your own graphics. The difference is that you they're instant. You're spending all of your time changing color schemes, tweaking copy. And so, it's the same same sort of pattern. It's if you're not a web builder and you need to do something fast, they're unbelievable tools. However, they're not changing, you know, that the the the the fact that the web developer or the the web designer out there is is still sort of super premium if you're looking for, you know, something great. Totally. So, so I I feel like I feel like we framed up, um, you know, how AI can be valuable in general. I I'd really love to go into like, in particular for for your podcasting workflow, like, how do we think about like how a podcast comes together for you, what that process is like, and then, um, let's start getting into like the the specific parts how of how AI can be useful. Absolutely. And so, I think let's try to have this be or the the framework that I try to bring to this is so many people now are creating content. And so, we'll try to abstract a little from just specifically, you know, podcast to a broader content creation process because I think, you know, like I said, a huge a huge number of people are are doing that. Um, let me share, um, my screen. All right. So, for the purpose of this uh, the AI Daily Brief, as you mentioned, it's a daily podcast and video. It's actually two videos on YouTube that come together. There's a headline news section, which is about 5 minutes on, you know, fast 30-seconds, 1-minute updates on whatever's, uh, you know, happened that day or the day before. And then a a more analysis-type section that's more like 10 minutes or so, where we go deeper on a particular topic. So, the day that we're recording, Ilya just announced his, you know, new safe super intelligence company. So, that's the main episode. And then the, you know, the the headlines were things like Dell working with Elon on xAI, which raised their stock price, and some Chinese startups, you know, infiltrating the US, you know, for for AI purposes, even though there's there's controversy there. So, that's the the the show that I do. And because it's two YouTube videos that get turned into a podcast that then have to be promoted and shared everywhere, there's there's just a lot of of work. And actually, this is one of two daily podcasts that I that I do on top of running Super Intelligence. So, I'm very much in the market for ways that make this faster. And so, I will say that I'm going to show both things that I actually use, as well as things that one could use that for whatever reason I happen not to. And so, the first area where that's sort of a contrast is when I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to cover from a you know, the AI news perspective, it's informed by two things. One is I'm living on Twitter bookmarking things day in day out. And you know, a huge part of what I care about is not just the news itself, but the discussion around it, the meta sort of analysis of how people are responding to the news. I think that's that's really what makes the show different than just any sort of reporting type of a thing. And I I'm just bookmarking them throughout the day. There's no real way There probably is a way to fast, you know, make that faster with AI, but for me, that's it's just something that's so integrated into my normal experience where I'm just bookmarking, bookmarking, bookmarking left and right. Versus bookmarks. Sure. Um I'm kind of curious. Like, I want to understand a little bit more like what's your taste? Like, what's the What's the thing that makes you go, "Ooh, I need to bookmark that for the show, you know?" So, sometimes it's going to be because it relates to a particular topic. So, for example, Claude 3.5 comes out, artifacts come out, and I know instantly that is a topic that is going to be both well, one, I'm going to make super tutorials about it. Two, I'm going to cover it on the show. And so, I'm bookmarking both just the the actual news itself particularly from key players. So Mike Krieger is the new chief product officer at Anthropic previously the the co-founder of Instagram. And I'll tend to bookmark, you know, the announcement itself but then also people interacting with it. Right? So the first few hours after this came out everyone was just sharing their generations. You know, so you have a lot of people making clones of games, a lot of people just reacting to to where it sits especially with you know in terms of comparison to GPT-4. And so this is a a whole category of things is just what's all of the discourse and discussion around a particular topic. So you can see today it's it's almost all almost all Claude. For me a lot you know because I'm keeping track of so many different tools for super intelligent I will often just bookmark things that I I want to go back to. Galileo's super cool text to UI tool just announced a partnership with Replit that makes it easy to go from the code that Galileo is producing to the actual IDE. So I don't know how I'm going to use that or even if I will but for me to some extent bookmarking is also a mental trigger, you know, it's just a it's a way to remember one additional thing. What else is on here? That might be elucidating. Sometimes it's just big conversation like Elon is clearly talking about safe super intelligence when he says any given AI startup is doomed to become the opposite of its name which is a pretty clever tweet I have to say even if you disagree with Is this the kind of thing where like um uh you're bookmarking it and then right before you record the show you're like scrolling back through to like write a little doc for yourself? How Yeah, how do you how do you come back to it? The way that the AI show works is I actually don't script it at all um and that's because so I've done these sort of daily shows both semi-scripted, fully scripted and then completely unscripted. However, when I started the AI show, I decided that I was just going to do it completely unscripted. One, I think there's a it brings a different type of energy that I like, that you're sort of rambling through it a little bit. But, I also just from a pure time perspective, with so many other things going on, it's like I can't start another show that's going to be two YouTube videos as well if I don't do it this way. So, basically what I'm doing on any given show is I will kind of roughly think through it in my head in terms of what the architecture of a particular show is, and then I'll I'll literally put the the the the tabs on a window that I'm going to go through with Descript in the order roughly that I'm going to go through them. And so, for for the Ilya episode today, I went back through all of the conversation and discourse and started to bunch the commentary into some different themes. So, some of the themes were contrast with OpenAI and whether there was going to be a talent rush from OpenAI to safe superintelligence. A second theme was excitement that Ilya is doing something and and sort of you know, lauding Ilya for for his contribution so far. A third theme was basically skepticism that there was any sort of business model there that that could justify whatever money was going into this or how much it was going to cost to do it. And so, it's sort of these buckets of of themes that I'm going to put there. Sometimes it's articles, sometimes it's tweets, but I'm really using the the linearity of the tabs to talk over it and sort of do my do my structuring for me. I love that. I think it's so cool that the person who is like doing the top, literally the top consistently AI podcast, is like I don't script it. I kind of like put my tabs in order and I just like free associate for 10 minutes and like that's the podcast. Like it's so good. It's amazing cuz all these people are out here being like, I got to like script it and it has to be perfect. And it's actually a it's it's a sort of common pattern like um I was hanging out with Ali Abdaal uh like a month or two ago and he was talking about his uh he's a really big YouTuber for anyone that doesn't know and he was talking about his process um and he's experimented with every different kind of video like from completely unscripted to completely scripted and the thing that uh first of all he has found that there's there's no correlation he can find between like performance and like how edited and how scripted it is um but uh what he has found is that his top video is one that was completely unscripted and he just like sat down and just like reeled it out for like 5 minutes and that was it um and mostly he does basically what you do which is like he has an outline which with like three points on it um I your equivalent would be tabs and then he just like free associates and I think that that really kind of gives the um that that really nice balance between okay like I kind of know an overall structure but also I feel like I'm talking to you you feel like you're talking to me and it doesn't have that like uh you're not fighting that sense of it being kind of like wooden and delivered you know which Yep. I think it's really cool. The the the most important thing that I've found when it comes to just what the what the goal of a piece of content is is I think that what elevates it is just having a little bit of a point of view or a theme that you're trying to to convey or point that you're trying to make so it doesn't have to be a big complex radical point but what people respond to there's so many sources of news and just raw information the difference is how people how content creators contextualize that to help people think about how it should be so for the Ilia show just to stay on that example because we've been talking about it and I think it'll be familiar to a lot of your listeners part of the perspective that I wanted to bring was just the different ways, you know, these three or four different ways that people were talking about it. That's almost like I'm replacing my perspective on it with other people's, and that's what I try to do primarily. It's it's not a bully pulpit show for me. I want to show how, you know, the world is reacting to to particular news. The one contribution that that I made that I wanted to kind of share as a framework for thinking was around this question of the business model. And and whether what are these investors think they were going to get? And my argument was basically that my guess is that for some number of investors, they believe that the upside potential, the value of actually creating superintelligence, is so enormously uncalculable if it actually is achieved, that in fact wasting any amount of time between now and then on some intermediate business model is actually a huge distraction to the upside potential they're going to get, right? If someone is basically, uh, you know, putting odds on how likely to succeed a team is at achieving a trillion-dollar outcome or a multi-trillion-dollar outcome, and it would be a compelling argument, I think, to some that trying to win enterprise business between now and then is actually going to slow you down, and that you don't really care about the $3 billion that OpenAI is making because the the multiple trillions of dollars that that superintelligence represents is the is the big prize. I don't know even if I believe this. I just think it's an interesting framework that I hadn't seen people sharing. And so, I think that that's, you know, we try to do this with our with our tutorials as well. Instead of just having it be, you know, here's the stuff that you can do, we're trying to have thought about it, have experimented with the tool enough that we we can offer a a shortcut on some use case, right? So, it's basically if if we've spent an hour figuring something out or 2 hours figuring something out, we're going to give it to you in 5 minutes, so we're saving you that time. That's sort of the the promise. And I think that all content to some extent follows this pattern of, you know, what's the not just what's the thing that's being shared, but how am I supposed to think about it? Mhm. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, I know I I know I completely derailed you from from the original AI thing you were going to share. So, let's let's come back to your your your on Google News and you were sort of talking about, okay, here's how here's how I gather the the kinds of topics that I that I that I want to share on the show. We wanted to do Twitter bookmarks, but it but it seemed like there's something you want to share specifically about Google News. Sure. So, the the the funny thing is that this is actually contra to the entire way that that AI or that search is evolving in the era of AI, but because I want comprehensiveness, for me going back through pages and pages and pages of the day's news on Google is actually the most relevant starting point outside of those Twitter bookmarks. It's just making sure that, you know, whatever random study that that someone did that's someone wrote an article about that's on page 10 of Google results, I want to see that. And it and I think it shows a moment of where AI will not always be the answer to all problems. A lot of times when people are searching, what they're looking for is the answer to a question where the sort of AI overview or what you can get with Perplexity is exactly what you want. Sometimes you want long-tail information that's just way out there that you wouldn't have access to otherwise, and actually a summarization is the enemy of that. And that's sort of where where I am with this. However, there are AI tools that are valuable as part of this searching process as well. So, I will often use Feedly. Feedly has an AI feed feature that they've been experimenting with for a while now. You You AI feeds. It's better if you actually customize it and get it down. But again, I've got this sort of weird use case where really what I'm looking for is just everything about AI. So, you know, I'll do I'll do a search for artificial intelligence and it comes back and basically says there's way too much there. You shouldn't do it like that. But it's still valuable because they're going to kick up things that are sometimes deeper and more long-tail than even I'm going to get from Google. So, this is sort of This isn't based on like the things that you subscribe to in Feedly. It's just like the entire internet. If you used Feedly the way that they imagined it, yes, you can you can I mean you can use this tool in incredibly powerful ways to customize and hone in. Again, I am in a this particular use case is voracious in a way that just a raw out of the box use of it is is actually good for me. Got it. Okay, cool. That's That's really cool. I didn't know about that. I'm I feel like there's this whole discourse about like people should be able to, you know, create their own algorithms and and all that kind of stuff and Twitter should be replaced with blockchain where you have your own algorithms and but that's feels very nascent and we're all waiting for our algorithms. But this actually feels like you could do that with Feedly, but like no one's talking about that for some reason. I really want to check this out. Yeah, I I think it's I think that there it's it's likely to me that there there is a power user type of use case of this that could be extremely valuable for something not dissimilar to what I'm doing, but just that is a little bit more focused to refined where this type of thing could save you a huge amount of information on surfacing the actual things that you want to cover, you know. Cool. That's awesome. Um So, as part of this sort of research process, I I will also shout out Perplexity and and sort of AI AI research tools. I would I'm not sure exactly what percentage of time this would come up for me. But like let's say that I'm digging into a technical topic. I'm coming at AI from a broad societal and business level, not a technical level. And, uh, like many people who have gotten into AI, you know, specifically through the context of generative AI, there are concepts that people have known for decades at this point that get thrown in, bundled in with terms. Anytime that I'm looking at research papers, I will often go to something like Perplexity to ask for background information on a particular topic. Or, you know, uh, I will use Perplexity sometimes to remind myself of things. So, a a lot of times, or part part of the value proposition, I think, of of daily analysis show like mine is the percentage of people who listen who listen close to every day is actually very high. When people listen, they tend to listen a lot. It tends to be sort of integrated into their into their workflows. And because of that, I almost get to weave themes in and out over time that people have heard me talk about sort of over and over in different ways. But, I sometimes have to remind myself of those things. So, I'll give you, for example, a really relevant thing that would come up quite quite a bit is, uh, AI, uh, ex- Bi- Biden AI executive order. Give the key details. Right? And, um, you know, this is something I spent a ton of time on. I talked about it then, but it was, you know, more than 6 months ago now. It was about 7 months ago now. And so, going back and reminding myself of all of the different provisions therein and, you know, uh, something like Perplexity, what's great about it, and this is the same promise of a of an AI overview type of a of a interface experience, is if what I need is just that quick summary and reminder, that's what their answer does. But, because it's all sourced, I can then It's It's actually a quite fast way to actually get to the original source material as well. Um, so, Perplexity is a is a fairly common tool that I'll use in that that very small prep period before I just let the thing rip. That makes a lot of sense and I think this is actually broader than just podcasting like I think people underestimate how much of any kind of content creation whether it's podcasting or writing or what whatever is like actually just summarizing other things in order to get to the get to the point you want to make like because if you're tracking the theme of like you know how government and AI interact and like this Biden executive order is part of that like you might have a perspective overall about like what the government should do or what the government's role should be but in order to explain that perspective you have to first explain the Biden executive order and you have to summarize it in a few sentences and know the intricacies of it and like that actually takes a lot of work to do um to like make sure you're right even if you basically know it just like if you haven't thought thought about it in a couple weeks or a couple months or whatever like you have to go back and like read all this stuff and I think AI is like so good for doing that and it's it happens for me in my writing too or like I'm often dealing with um more complicated either like technical topics like how AI works or I'm talking about like more like esoteric like philosophical ideas that like maybe I studied in school or read about a long time ago and in order to like frame up the discussion like I have to summarize that stuff and it always takes like a bunch of work but like AI just does it for me in a like in in a sort of context or in a way in a format where I can kind of just like stick it right in there and like I I'll put in my voice or whatever but like that is so helpful and I think people underestimate how valuable it is. Totally. And and just building off of that so much of it too is even if I'm not going to or one isn't going to use precisely what it is as you're trying to figure out how to think about something it's incredibly valuable to go back and get you know the gist of of arguments right so I I just asked as we were talking as another example what is a transformer in the context of AI and what are arguments about whether the transformer architecture can lead to AGI. It's the type of question that's resurfacing around again Ilya's safe super intelligence thing. Are we on a path like some of the responses were the path that people are exploring fundamentally is not going to lead to super intelligence. We need something totally different. That's why I'm skeptical. Going back and getting the the background on what those arguments are and where they come from and who's on what side is something that previously was enormously time consuming. You have to be a you know, a wizard and sift through so much on Google. Whereas now it's just it's so hyper compressed. That makes sense. Yeah, totally. So I guess like once once you're once you're kind of you've done your research, you kind of like have your have your set of things from Perplexity, from Twitter, from Google. Like what's what's your next step? So as I mentioned for me at that point I'm just off I've you know, I set things up in my tabs and I let it rip. But I think that it's it's valuable here again as we're trying to abstract this into a broader set of people. This is the phase at which someone might want help architecting or scripting, right? So pick your LLM whether it's Claude or whether it's ChatGPT or whatever works best for you. And there's a couple different ways that I can see people using this. One would be outlines, right? So you don't need it to script everything for you, but I'm going to create a show about you know, that that same transformer architecture. Let's actually do this where I'll pull Perplexity back up and give it a try. Um I'll use the same prompt. And I'll say I'm doing a podcast about this. Outline in four sections what I should talk about. Right? Whatever it is, you know, uh This could be a a way that you could figure out sort of roughly how to how to architect your show. Again, this is not necessarily just strict scripting. This is a way to think about how can I, you know, frame everything? How can I sort of bring bring some structure to this? I think stuff like this could be, you know, incredibly valuable. You could obviously also then go from here to actual scripting, right? If that was the the approach for you. Um, you know, I think where scripting can be really valuable is especially if you have uh it's it's easier to not script when you allow yourself to be rambly because part of the way that humans work is you talk enough to figure out what you were trying to say in the first place and then you eventually get to it. If you're trying to be precise, right? If you have a a limited time window. If you have 30 seconds to make your point or 60 seconds to make your point, that's where compressing what you're doing into something that is more scripted can be can be really valuable. And so, you know, I think LLMs are are an obvious tool for that. I guess one one more thing to flag, um and I'm interested in your experience with this. I have been spending a bunch of time exploring how good LLMs are at imitating my writing style. And I would say that I give them a D+ to C- so far, right? It it is not a thing that I think uh actually works. I've, you know, I've tried with with Gemini loading up a bunch of my stuff. I've tried with with Claude. I did a custom GPT. And what I will say is that it is distinctly more like me than it is just a raw normal, you know, ChatGPT basis sounding, right? So, it's not that there's nothing here. It's just that if you're actually looking to replace your own voice, it's very I think at this stage, it's very unlikely that you're going to be satisfied with the results. Yeah, I have a I have a slightly different perspective, but in a in a limited way. So, um I actually have found that Claude, very particularly Claude, not ChatGPT, not Gemini, is good at like replicating my voice like 80% of the way for specific kinds of writing tasks. And um and and I think you should be skeptical of that because like like you said, mostly LLMs are not good at this. Um but uh but I found I found that um if you are doing a repeat writing tasks where you're taking a piece of content and transforming it from one form to another. So like an example for me is like I'm constantly taking podcasts I've done and taking the transcript and trying to figure out how to tweet the tweet the episode out. So I need to turn the transcript into a tweet. Um uh if I have a bunch of examples of having done that in the past where I have the the transcript and then the tweet that came out of it, um and I feed that to Claude along with a little bit of a style guide, it's actually really really good at like getting pretty close to my voice and doing it and picking out the interesting thing and ordering it in the way that I would order it and like all that kind of stuff, which is really really hard to do. Um and so uh you just teed me up perfectly cuz we built this tool called Spiral um that we launched like 2 days ago. It's been going wild uh res- like over the last couple days, which is really really fun. We have like uh 2,000 sign-ups in the first 2 days, something like that. Um and um it's basically based on this insight. Like I had that I I realized this a couple months ago and then I just like built the first version of it um and started using it and shared it with my team and they were like, "Wow, this actually works really well." So we just released it and um I I think it's like a uh for that narrow-ish use case, it's like kind of stunning how good it is. Awesome. So this is actually a perfect segue and reinforces a lot of what we talked about at the beginning. That if if we're talking about sort of the gap between people's expectations and reality, general purpose, "Hey, just imitate my writing." underwhelming, right? You found this very specific type of use case where it worked really, really well. And then you actually institutionalized that or built that into a a specific kind of purpose-built tool that can do that type of a thing over and over. And this is actually a pattern that we're seeing at Super Intelligent quite a bit, which is that there was this notion the first a first wave of startups that came out right after ChatGPT, you know, you very pejoratively were called, you know, ChatGPT wrappers and things like that. And what's interesting is that I think that you're seeing now is that some number of those startups weren't ever actually ChatGPT wrappers per se. Instead, what they were were customizations for a specific use case that people have uh over and over and over again that need a different either specification or a sort of a customization of the model, or they need a different user experience to surround it, right? Perplexity I think is a great example of this in some ways where they are I mean, they're pulling from from many different models, but really it's a triumph of designing for a specific type of use case and creating a great user experience around it, right? Rather than it just being this random chat window. Artifacts, which just came out, is basically just a different user experience that says, "Hey, actually, if we separated the output field from the instruction field, it would probably be a lot easier to help people use this tool." And so far, I mean, we're hours in, but I think that that's pretty validated pretty fast. Spiral to me is a great example of this where it's like, "There's a thing that a lot of people have to do over and over and over again that in sort of gen zero or gen one of LLMs, you're hacking together with custom GPTs, or you're just, you know, you've got prompts that you save in Notion that you copy-paste every time, but now there's a purpose-built tool for that. And I think why people are responding it so well is that there's a lot of people who have that same use case that you did, that it just cut out all that sort of stuff, and it's likely to become a beloved product because of that. Thank you. I really appreciate that. I hope so. And I think yeah, you're totally like hitting on this thesis I have, which is like if I think about what the best analog for AI in general and ChatGPT is in terms of like the history of software, I think a really good analog is Excel. Um and uh in the same like the the sort of overlap is Excel is like really easy to get started. Anyone can Anyone can start by just like filling in a cell, but like you can do things of like almost unlimited complexity with it. It just like it progressively reveals it's like it's complexity. You can use it at any level. Um and it I think it taught people a new paradigm for how to think about using computers like when it came out like 30 years ago. Um and uh what's interesting is that Excel like it it took over the market, and then it was like sort of progressively unbundled into like all of the SaaS tools we see today. Um and I think when ChatGPT came out, everyone tried to build like ChatGPT wrappers, the pejorative ChatGPT wrappers, and I think um many of them didn't work because ChatGPT hadn't had enough time for people to like use it and get it to like even know that they might want something else. And I think we're we're just at the point where enough people have been using ChatGPT and and other tools like it to be like oh, I have this specific workflow where you can kind of like unbundle it a little bit. I think it's like still very early, but yeah, you can unbundle it into things like Spiral because people know what what it is and why they'd want it. Whereas like if we'd launched Spiral a year ago, I don't think enough people would know. Um and so that's sort of the opportunity I see for these types of tools is like as they get more um more distributed and more and more people like learn this paradigm of computing, which is a very different paradigm, there will be more opportunities to kind of like um spin out the more complicated workflows that people develop for their specific like use cases and turn them into new products. Yep. Uh I think that the other I mean that at the risk of getting too off track here, the other thing is that a lot of times when companies are or a category of companies is being referred to pejoratively, you have to understand the context of who is being pejorative about it, right? And so the ChatGPT wrapper thing is pejorative specifically in the context of whether it's venture backable. But it's only a small slice of businesses in the world that are actually venture backable because venture the the the business model is predicated on not 10x returns, but 100 and 1,000x returns. And there's just a very small number of companies overall that are that type of thing. What's fascinating about AI is that it's making more viable non-venture backed models for even more sophisticated products, right? Uh and so it's kind of like the AI is solving the problem that's creating opportunities for builders on top of AI, which is a pretty cool thing. It is super cool. Like I mean, yeah, I I want I want to get back to your your workflow in a second, but like I mean we built stuff spiral end-to-end in like 2 months. I built the first version in 2 days with AI and it's like it's unbelievable how how much easier it is, how much faster it is. We probably spent like maybe 10k total to build it. Like it's you can build really amazing products and businesses really quickly with this stuff. Um so it's it's super fun. Yeah, I I think too that there is a a lot of insight in your point that we are still so early in our experimentation and our explorations of how to use these things. I don't know if you saw this tool that that was just announced this morning called Auto. But basically the way that it it looks like it works is it's a research tool, but it uses tables instead of a chat interface. And so let's say that you're researching Nvidia's corporate results or something like that. What are patterns in Nvidia's corporate results? It's going to create an agent for each column basically in the table that then goes and fills out that information. Uh you can give it sources in the same way that you would give ChatGPT sources and I I actually think it's it's fascinating. I haven't had a chance to play around with it yet, but it's notable to me that any sort of data analysis stuff is actually I think a little lagging right now. People have been so enamored of the chat-based interfaces that the Excel type of interfaces have been left behind a little bit and you know, as someone who interacts with workplace enterprisey type users every day, if people start figuring out stuff that really works in formats like Excel and tables, I think it's it could take off. That's amazing. Yeah, I I did see that and I I need to check it out more cuz it looks it looks really cool and it's I think it's a great example of like that new paradigm of computing that we're just sort of like peeling the layers of the onion back. Um so so we so to get back to your your sort of workflow, we we've basically gone through some of the research phase. We've gone through if you wanted to do some outlining like how you would do that. What's what's the sort of next step in the process? Next step is the big one. It's the recording, right? And there are of course a a million different ways to do this. The The tool that I use every day is Descript. So Descript is it's it's basically a you know, for for my purposes it's it's not dissimilar from Loom or something where it's going to I'm selecting a part of the screen that I'm recording. That's a tabs that I've set up and my little floating head's going to be down there in the bottom or I can do a direct on shot. So for me I have a very specific formula. I do a direct on head shot that starts the thing and then I you know, sort of do the the the floating head screen over thing for the rest of it. And and Descript is sort of a a two-part thing. It's a recording tool. So that's that's one part of it, but it's also an editing tool. And so Descript was one of the first tools to really have that text-based video editing. So it's going to create a transcript of what you create and allow you to highlight parts of the transcript, delete them and do it instead of the sort of, you know, timeline based editing that's traditional in in video editing. This makes it massively more accessible for people who haven't used, you know, Adobe Premiere Pro or things like that before. And and actually when I started the AI Daily Brief, for for a little while I was editing it myself cuz I just wanted to to learn how to use this and how to get fast at it. I also wanted it to be that if for any reason an editor that I hired in the future, you know, crapped out because it's a daily show, I could just jump in. And and so, you know, Descript or, you know, there's a bunch of things like it now. I think that this paradigm of text-based editing has found its way into basically every tool at this point. Um make the video creation, you know, capture and editing process I think a lot faster than it used to be. Totally. It's I love Descript. It's so smart. I mean, we use Riverside for this show, but I think I think Descript is also also a really incredible. I just have to say like, if you can edit text, you can make videos. It's such a good headline and it just reminds me of that dodgeball quote, like if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball. Like I wonder if I wonder if they're referencing dodgeball. Um The guy that started Descript is a funny dude. His name is Andrew Mason. He started Groupon. And he is a quirky a quirky MFer relative to the world of of startup CEOs, I will say. He He truly He truly truly is. Um if if I think he wrote like a really funny resignation announcement from Groupon. So, if if anyone's looking for like good corporate humor, uh definitely go check that out. Um but uh yeah, I I think Descript is great. I love the I love the AI sort of text editing to video pipeline they've built. And also, um they just have all these like little things that make it nice. Like they'll just get rid of your ums and ahs and and like do a bunch of auto editing stuff that's like really helpful. Yeah, two two other AI features that I wanted to call out just for for completeness. To your point though, the ums and ahs I think is probably the most used of any of them. The filler words they call it. And it's really good. And I have found that it's actually it tends not to over edit those. The one challenge is like because, you know, people say if like is your particular tick, sometimes there you know, likes are important because you're actually talking about someone liking something. Um but in general the ums, ahs, all those things, it does a really great job on. The other one that I've been experimenting with a little bit more is the their eye contact tool. So with with super intelligent uh we have a variety we have a bunch of different content creators who are who are creating tutorials. And most of them don't do do scripting in general. It's sort of similar to the process that I have. It's an outline into a a video. But the they will often do a uh a start part, you know, kind of a a kickoff line or two that they do script because they know exactly what they want to say. And so if they haven't got like a teleprompter set up, you can see if it's you know, that that someone's reading something and it's a very distracting thing. And so we've played around with eye contact which is basically a post-production editing tool that Descript has that has your eyes looking at the the camera. And what I would say is when you are when you're the only thing in in camera, right? If it's just the the full video is you, the eye contact tool can be a little zombie-ish. Um just it can be a little aggressive. However, if you are doing like in the context of a floating head, right? Where you're a small little part of the corner, it's when it's gangbusters. It is so good. So if you're doing something that's semi, you know, that's that's scripted where you are doing the little floating head thing, I would encourage, you know, checking out the the eye contact tool as a as an approach um as opposed to, you know, like a teleprompter type setup. That's really interesting cuz I literally just bought a teleprompter for that exact reason cuz like I'm I'm now doing a lot more like ad reads and I'm doing more like scripted, you know, videos or whatever and just even for this podcast like I can look directly at you because you're in my teleprompter right now. Um and uh I've been meaning to try little uh some of those eye contact uh AI tools cuz I think that Descript has it, there are a couple of other platforms that have it, too. It's good to know that like it works, but only if you're not if you're like it's the you're the only thing on the screen. Um yeah, that's that's that's a really interesting little tip. Teleprompter is great example of you know, all of these little lines that people are figuring out that will evolve over time. It's highly likely that in 2 years it'll be as good as any sort of teleprompting, but right now teleprompting is way better for you know, if you want to fully maximize how good it is, you know. How does it work though if you're like kind of like looking like you're physically looking down like if it fixes your eyes so you're looking at the camera like The more that you're bopping around, the more that you're looking down, the harder it is, right? So if you're reading a you know, something that's down on the ground where your whole head is tilted, that's going to be comparatively bad, whereas if it's like the way that most people do this is they're they you know, they set up their thing just off the side, so it's kind of like resources, sign in, sign up, and you can just see that they're you know, not looking directly at at cam. Okay, that makes sense. Cool. Yeah, Descript is awesome. Okay, so Descript, we've edited the thing or we've we've taken the video, we've edited the thing, and now we are back in uh doing all of the next set of stuff. And so we're back to LLMs, right? Uh because you know, we want to rip transcripts out, maybe we have a transcript from Descript, but you know, you you just articulated the perfect you know, thing that you would use like a spiral for previously a ChatGPT or something like it to you know, go from that transcript to potential titles, to uh you know, social media tweets. Um and there are tons of different tools for each different uh you know, piece of this, right? You could do you know, there are uh SEO.ai is one of these things that's sort of powered by all of these LLMs that you would work with, but is hyper focused on just thinking about SEO content, right? So if you're creating a companion blog post, this is going to be a really good tool for getting it to rank, right? Like, you know, suggesting key terms that maybe you didn't use in the podcast itself, but would be good to include that. There's tools like Happy Copy, which is totally focused on on written copy. I think their their specialization, their er specialization, basically the thing that they started with is email newsletters, but they also have social post copy, LinkedIn, you know, Twitter, etc. And again, these are all purpose-built tools that are exploring, you know, really, really focused use cases or applications of LLMs. If you're comfortable inside ChatGPT, if you're comfortable inside Claude, a lot of these things, you know, you might build a process that does this for you. It's kind of just again, you know, everyone is now figuring out which of these things work even better for them, you know? And so, it may be that if if an LLM saves you 40 minutes of this kind of writing time, something like Spiral saves you an hour, you know, or or or whatever. Um so, you know, I think that the writing that happens after uh any piece of content comes out is one of the best areas for this, even if you are a good writer, um just because it's it's so exhausting from a sheer like human standpoint to produce something and then have to go back, live inside that world again, remember? I mean, this this is probably a little specific to me, but I will often, by the time I get uh the a video edited back from my editors or the pod the final podcast, I'll have to go read the transcript even remember exactly what I was talking about because when it's done, I'm on to the next thing. And even though it's only six or seven hours later or whatever, it's three hours later, it's literally, you know, like dragging myself back into the world of that piece of content is is painful. And so, you know, I like writing. I think I'm a good writer. I like, you know, thinking about titles and stuff. I still think that these this area is one where almost everyone is going to find benefits from using some version of these writing tools to help with with the copy that comes out. I 100% agree. I mean, you're you're speaking my language obviously because I cuz I built Spiro for that exact reason. I was like, I have to spend all this time like I record a podcast and then I get an edit back a couple days later and have to spend all this time like watching it and then being like, "Okay, what was the main idea? Like what do you what I think is interesting?" Or actually I had to go I have a ghost writer who helps me with this and she has to do that and that takes her a lot of time and then she sends it to me and sometimes like I don't like it. So then I have to do it and then it just that whole thing is like a mess and um and it's also it's both a mess and it's um and it's hard work and it's skilled work. Like it's it's actually like not anyone can do it. Like you it's hard to do. Um but it's like simultaneously hard but also a little bit brainless. Like you're kind of like doing rote work that takes a lot of skill to do. I like that combination is sort of rare. Um and uh and so that's that's why I that's why I wanted that's why I wanted to make Spiro and um it definitely seems to be helpful for those those kinds of like rote but still skilled tasks. I'm curious like Happy Copy. Now now we're now we're thinking about competitive research for me. So I'm I'm really interested like how does it actually work? Can we can we do like a I don't know an email campaign or like a social post or something like that? Like what is what's going on there? Sure, let's do Let's see if if we can find anything that we can do with that's still free. Um no. We don't. It looks like it. This is the number one thing that we're finding with with Super. This is sort of as an aside. Um On the one hand I think that AI tools are training people to to pay for software again. Like there's no like, you know, we'll grow at all costs and then not charge you. It's every tool is charging. The problem is that there's only so many 20 or $30 a month subscriptions that you can do before you just run out of time. And we're seeing that fatigue happen with super intelligent users right now where our one of our most in-demand things is uh you can see it right on the front page. Free tools only is our most popular playlist because they you know people want to know tools that have a sufficient amount like enough free usage that they can actually get get value out of them. Yeah, that that makes sense. And and that's honestly what we're doing with Every like when you subscribe to Every you get Every you get Spiro and you get Lex our AI document writer app which is so it's not free but like you get a bunch of things bundled together so you're not like you know shelling out for a bunch of different subscriptions but yeah that's that's makes a lot of sense. I think it's hard listen I think it's a I think it's a better environment net net for things to charge enough money that they can be sustainable businesses and then to let chips fall where they may of like people have to try them and they stick with the ones that work and they don't with the ones that don't. I think that the biggest barrier is the trying is what we're finding you know. So we're we're having conversations with lots of folks around you know hey we'll make some of our you know the the content that we're creating about you free in exchange for discount codes for our users and you know that that sort of you know bargaining or whatever. That makes sense. That's really cool. Okay yeah so so so we can't do we unfortunately can't do hop is it called Happy Copy? Happy Copy yeah. We can't do Happy Copy cuz they have a paywall but but yeah curious like what's next if if if we don't want to pay for Happy Copy where do you go next? So next is my favorite part just from a sheer like personal standpoint. When so everyone had everyone who's into AI now had whatever conversion experience they had right? There's a sort of a moment where they were like okay well that's going to change everything and it's going to change every you know about how I work or what it is. And so for me, it was actually not ChatGPT, it was image generators. And so the first place that I started to see this was my my brother-in-law had just finished writing a fantasy novel and it had been his goal for like a couple years. He spent a ton of time working on it. And he sent me a bunch of illustrations for it that were off-the-wall cool. Like just so cool. And this was probably December 2022. Um and he had been using an implementation of stable diffusion that was a Discord server called Unstable Diffusion where it's uncensored and you could do whatever. Uh it's a very chaotic Discord server for anyone who goes and checks it out if it's if it's even still there. And so I thought that was amazing because this the stuff that he was creating, you know, I was I instantly started pitching him on starting a consultancy to go help other people do that right now. Basically, I was like, you have to do this. Like people will, you know, and he decided not He wanted to keep writing, whatever. Um but so that was sort of step one and then step two, I started playing with Midjourney. And I found myself I would be on a plane, you know, and instead of turning on the internet, I would just create or like turn on, you know, start watching a video, I would just endlessly create you know, I I with I can probably find them, you know, uh uh you know, the or that's not in mine. Hold on. Um you know, uh uh Hemingway at the, you know, at Le Dôme I go in Paris in the 1920s, you know, and these random nostalgic images of of, you know, Paris from whatever or California in the '60s or whatever it was. Like just for the sheer fun of it. I think that for for me, image generation is is very discrete because it's the thing that I found that most makes you feel like a wizard when you use it. You know, this capacity that you never had before that you can all of a sudden create things. So I actually I just love using image generators. I spend a ton of time doing it just just for fun. And so when it comes to uh the creation process of of any piece of content, you always are going to have imagery associated with it. You're always going to have thumbnails. And so, if you look back through my Midjourney, huge parts of it are me experimenting with different images that are going to turn into, you know, covers for for episodes. So, you know, you can see I'm trying to get at, you know, a computer reflected in someone's eye. This was for a for a for a superintelligent YouTube cover. You know, it is like try this and didn't quite work, so I tried, you know, tweak this the stylization settings, blah blah blah blah blah. And if you just scroll back through, I would say probably 90% of my Midjourney is me experimenting with covers for for for for thumbnails for episodes. Um yeah. And what have you learned about like what prompts work and how to get a good cover or thumbnail from Midjourney? Couple different things. One big huge thing that I don't think is talked about enough is the more that you are able or in a position to let AI wander, I think the better the result is going to be. At this stage, it's still hard to get something as super precise as your imagination can make it, right? So, it's like the more that you know exactly what you want, the harder it is to get that thing, right? The more that your mind's eye has figured out, you know, the the harder it is. Whereas, if you're a little bit more open to a vibe that you're trying to capture, I think that's what I find like Midjourney is really really good for explorations of. And so, you start to experiment with words that that connect you to vibes. So, you know, uh describing the style, illustration, you know, illustration is different than line drawing is different than you know, cartoon is different than you know, a specific type of cartoon like Pixar style or something like that. So, you know, using those words that sort of gets you in in the style is going to be super valuable. Especially again, if you can like be broad. Like if you look at a lot of my experimentations, they're not super long prompts. Now, this is particularly based on the use case here. With a with a thumbnail for a YouTube video, I have a ton of openness and flexibility for what I'm doing. You know, there's the brand guidelines for me are much more about the way that elements are brought together on a YouTube thumbnail than exactly what the art looks like, you know, behind the thumbnail. So, that that's a a particular thing, you know, if you if you have a more precise type of kind of brand approach, dialing in and figuring out what's going to work you know, or what what things kind of come back to being valuable is is is super important. I guess I can give you an example of something where where I did try to dial in a particular style. Different use case. So, the the only game that I've ever loved is Magic the Gathering and my favorite way to play it is a is a is a format called Cube where you basically bring together cards from all the different sets from all time and you kind of construct your own set that you then go draft with friends. And at some point a couple years ago, I started actually just designing like my own cards that were missing. And a lot of it was based on I I I started a project to create cubes for each season of the year. I really like seasonality. And I love fall fall is my favorite season. And so, I wanted something that was like an early Americana themed set. And so, Magic has a lot of cards that are like horror inspired like gothic horror and things like that. But they don't have a lot of things that are reminiscent of like pilgrim times and the Salem witch trials. And that's the vibe that I was really trying to capture for these custom cards. And there's a million custom card makers on on on the internet for for magic cards. It's you know, hugely popular game popular game and tons of people like making their own custom cards. But, you still have to insert art for all of these things. And so, I'll give us whiplash and and try to get to to some of these things. Um, but I wanted to dial in a style for for this. And so, the most important things when I was really trying to dial in a style is reference points that that you can come back to. So, I experimented a lot with um with certain phrases. Uh, let me see if I can just find. So, I experimented with a bunch of different reference points for this. Um, some of them were stylistic. So, I tried 1700s paintings. So, like a time and a you know, a style like oil painting. Uh, I tried um, you know, uh landscape painting, Hudson River School. Basically trying to figure out something that worked. One of the things that works really well is if you have a particular artist, uh you can really ground a style. So, Winslow Homer was one that I used uh to to create sort of a consistent style that that looks similar across a lot of this different art. And again, I was trying to create you know, images that worked together so that the feel was all similar across, you know, we've got this bucolic image of of someone you know, planting uh or or you know, in harvest time. But, I also wanted that to work with, you know, some scary image of this weird guy. And I and I think that, you know, by by referencing a you know, particular style, a particular artist, it's one of the ways that that you can get, you know, more consistency. But, consistency in in image generation, we could have a whole whole separate conversation on. Totally. I think that's I think that's really interesting. And And I I just like that point you made earlier about one of the reasons why you like in in image generation so much is cuz it feels like a magic power that you just didn't have before. And I feel like, you know, we think a lot about AI as this thing that speeds up things that you already do. But, it And that ties back to your earlier point where it's like this You love this cuz you couldn't do this before. Same thing for writing where it's like it's most useful for writers who don't are not professional writers. Um and I just like it just it's so beautiful that there's this like flowering of human creativity going on where it's like now we can make art and we can code and we can like do all this stuff that like all we had to do is like prompt it now instead of like spending years and years trying to trying to get good at it or whatever. And it's that's not to say that those skills are not valuable anymore, but it is to say that like um millions of people don't have to start at square square zero anymore. Like they can start on first base a little bit and like get the taste of what it's like to be good at this before they actually have any skill. And I think that's so cool. I I'm with you. I completely understand why in so many places there's so much backlash to this stuff. But, I, you know, I am ridiculously optimistic about it. And I'm optimistic for a couple of different reasons. One is that I think net net more people being able to create more stuff, having the tools of creation is just better, right? Like it it just it it just is, you know, denying gatekeeping access to creation does not make the the people who can create it better. There's always going to be a spectrum of what people can do. So, that that's one thing. Second, when it comes to art, I very much understand why people are, you know, that we have a whole set of societal conversations to have around the ethics of training and what that looks like. And it's going to be both a society conversation and it's going to be a legal conversation. And And frankly, different legal systems are going to come to different answers about this. But I think that what what I would say to an artist if they were worried is that ultimately, it's still going to be human artists who create the styles and approaches that people riff off of and template-ize. You know, it's it's like the the the I don't believe that the relevance of human creatives goes away. I think that they become benchmark and reference points where people get to go do fan fiction for their favorite artists, basically. I think that it's going to if anything increase that. Um and the last thing is that I just think in general, to to the point that you were just making, it would be absolutely insane to me if the way that all this played out is that it's it's pretty binary. Either we can do and create the same amount of stuff we're creating and doing now, just with less time and less money spent on it. That's one possible outcome. Or we can fill in all of that time and resources just creating more stuff. And it seems very obvious to me if you look at the entire pattern of human existence that we're just going to create more stuff. If code takes 1/10 of the time, we're not going to have 1/10 of the coders, we're going to code 10 times as much stuff. That's just That's the way that markets work, that's the way capitalism works, it's just the way that humans work. We just make more. Our appetites are ferocious for more stuff. And so, that doesn't mean that stuff will be good. There'll be, you know, more good stuff proportionally. It just means that there's going to be more of everything. And that'll create its own challenges, but I don't know. I I I think that it's it's hard from where we're sitting now to to sort of fully project out into those futures, but I think it's just going to be it's going to be very cool. It's going to be interesting, it's going to be dynamic, it's going to be exploratory, and you know, I think that we will find a dynamic, interesting, more creative world on the other side of it. I'm 100% with you. I I have exactly the same viewpoint. Like we will just make more and want more stuff and and that overall arming people with more creative powers is going to be better. Obviously, there's lots of societal conversations to have. I think we need new ethics for this kind of thing about what's acceptable and what and what's not. I think like there are certain certain people we need to take care of like all that kind of stuff, but like generally, I think it's going to be really good and really fun. And um I am definitely feeling that energy from this conversation. Um it's been like such a pleasure to get to talk to you and get to know you. Um if people are looking to uh learn more from you uh and hear your podcast or uh check out your company, like where where can they find you? Super intelligent is at bsuper.ai. And that's basically the handle everywhere. So it's bsuper\_ai on Twitter, bsuperai on uh on Instagram and on YouTube. Um and then the AI that name of the podcast is the AI Daily Brief. Uh is also at AI Daily Brief basically everywhere, YouTube, Instagram, uh or not it's not on Instagram, but YouTube and and Twitter. And then I am at nlw everywhere. So any of those places is a good place to find me. Amazing. Thank you so much. Yeah, Dan, it's been awesome to be here. Keep building, keep doing this podcast, and uh be excited to come back in a year and see all the stuff that you've built. Oh my gosh, folks, you absolutely, positively have to smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I. Why? Because this show is the epitome of awesomeness. It's like finding a treasure chest in your backyard. But instead of gold, it's filled with pure, unadulterated knowledge bombs about ChatGPT. Every episode is a roller coaster of emotions, insights, and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat craving for more. It's not just a show, it's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship. So, do yourself a favor. Hit like, smash subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely, hopelessly in love with you.