Comedian Sarah Rose Siskind—founder of the science and technology communications agency Hello SciCom—appears on AI & I to discuss FetusGPT, an LLM she is training exclusively on recordings of her own daily life: conversations, TV shows, videos, even snoring, all condensed into MP3 and text files. Because it learns English from such a narrow, idiosyncratic slice of the world, the model mostly babbles and picks up her swearing. The episode covers how Siskind uses AI in her comedy writing process, including writing a joke live with host Dan Shipper; why AI is useful even when its output isn't used directly; how she used a ChatGPT project to biohack her energy levels; and how ChatGPT has become a practical and emotional source of support during her pregnancy. Her broader point: AI is what we make of it. Timestamps: 00:01:54 - Introduction 00:02:03 - How Siskind is running an experiment between her unborn child and an LLM 00:07:34 - Demo of FetusGPT 00:15:16 - Siskind's pick for the funniest LLM 00:17:12 - How Siskind uses AI in her comedy writing 00:24:41 - Dan and Siskind write a joke together live using ChatGPT 00:37:21 - Why AI is useful even when you don't use its output directly 00:44:15 - How Siskind used a ChatGPT project to biohack her energy levels 00:57:09 - A question we fundamentally couldn't have asked in pre-ChatGPT times 01:05:29 - ChatGPT as a source of emotional support in pregnancy Book recommendations mentioned: I Forced a Bot to Write This Book; The Let Them Theory; Artificial Intelligence: An Illustrated History. # Channel Presentation Observations ## Format & Structure - **Interview podcast**: The host (Dan Shipper) conducts a long-form conversation with a guest, introducing them at the top: *"On this episode, I'm talking with Sarah Rose Ciskin... a fantastic science comedy writer and she runs the science and technology communications agency."* - **Named show**: The closing segment explicitly names the podcast: *"smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I... a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship."* - **Includes ad reads**: A mid-episode sponsor segment for Pitch presentation software, followed by *"And now back to the episode."* - **AI-generated outro**: The outro's hyperbolic, sycophantic style ("*pure unadulterated knowledge bombs about chat GPT... Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you*") suggests a deliberately AI-written sign-off, consistent with the show's AI theme. ## Claimed Scope - **AI-focused show with a practical/creative angle**: Topics covered include using AI for comedy writing, the "Fetus GPT" experiment, prompting techniques, AI in health (glucose monitoring, medication management, women's health), and AI in culture (the show "Plurabus," a book on AI history). - **Host self-positions as an AI power user**: Shipper references beta testing with OpenAI, prior interviews (Kevin Kelly episode mentioned by guest), and personal experimentation (*"I did the same thing and I had the same result... honestly life-changing"*). ## Intended Audience - **AI-curious professionals and creatives**: The conversation assumes familiarity with tools like ChatGPT, DALL·E, GPT-2 model architecture, and prompting strategies; the guest advises listeners directly (*"I strongly recommend to the listeners"* trying tools like Kora and Sparkle). - **Audience reachable for guest cross-promotion**: The guest closes with, *"I would love to engage with more of your audience... everybody I know hates AI and so I need to make more AI friends,"* implying the audience is AI-friendly — a notable contrast to the guest's science-comedy peer group. ## Observable Presentation Patterns - **Casual, comedic tone with deep technical digressions**: Banter (mispronouncing "Principia," the "may I meet you" meme) sits alongside discussion of model weights, training data scale, and divergent/convergent thinking research from Wharton. - **Live demonstration segment**: Guest shares screen to demo Fetus GPT and co-write a tweet with ChatGPT, showing the channel favors hands-on, real-time AI use over pure discussion. - **Host as engaged peer, not neutral interviewer**: Shipper contributes his own AI anecdotes (glucose monitoring, salad-before-pasta discovery) rather than only questioning. - **Guest CTA pattern**: Episodes end with asking guests where to find them (*"if people want to find you or any of your projects, where can they find you?"*), supporting a guest-driven community pipeline. ## Explicit Self-Description vs. Demonstrated - **Explicit**: Show named "AI and I"; host Dan Shipper; described in outro as delivering "knowledge bombs about chat GPT." - **Demonstrated (not claimed)**: Long-form interview format mixing comedy, personal health, and technical AI topics; sponsor-supported; audience skewing toward enthusiastic AI adopters. # Delivery Observation: "She Turned Her Whole Life Into Training Data—For an AI Baby" ## Speakers Two voices are observable: **Dan Shipper (host)** and **Sarah Rose Ciskin (guest)**. Sarah delivers the majority of the talk time. --- ## Tone and Register ### Sarah: Rapid, Enthusiastic, Self-Interruption-Heavy - Her delivery is marked by **constant self-interruption and course correction**. Examples: - > "Okay, getting back to the original question you asked me. What did I learn about like energy levels?" - > "Oh, here's another stupid thing about maternal medicine." - > "Okay. Um, well —" - She uses **hyperbolic intensifiers** as a recurring habit: "Oh my gosh," "oh my god," "that's so dumb," "that's rad as hell," "chef's kiss, man." - Frequent **laughter-adjacent snorts** are annotated in the transcript (`[snorts]`), suggesting amusement leaks into delivery while speaking. ### Dan: Deadpan, Brief, Redirecting - Dan's interjections are short and often function as prompts or comedic reactions: - > "You either die a hero or live long enough to become a meme." - > "I've determined though that I've been... I've been saying, 'Can I meet you?'" - He repeatedly uses the phrase **"That is really interesting"** (appears at least three times) as an acknowledgment-and-move-on device, plus "Wow. Interesting." and "I love that." --- ## Recurring Phrases and Vocabulary ### Sarah's "ChachiBT" Habit - Sarah consistently pronounces ChatGPT as **"Chad GPT" / "ChachiBT" / "chatbt" / "Chad Gupt" / "Chetchup"** — apparently one running verbal bit: - > "I asked Chad Gupt to tell me a joke" - > "So I've been talking with JBT about like how can I position myself" - > "truly the emotional intelligence of Chachi BT chef's kiss, man" - > "I do think that Chetchup could give you a script..." - This appears to be a deliberate stylistic tic rather than a transcription error, given the variety of renderings. ### "Like" as a Filler - Extreme density of **"like"** in both speakers' speech, characteristic of an informal, conversational register. This is a stable pattern throughout. ### AI-As-Person Language - Sarah consistently personifies AI tools, especially ChatGPT: - > "my good friend CHBT" - > "I'm sorry to be the other woman, Dan" - > "it's emotional intelligence actually is like intelligence intelligence" - Referring to ChatGPT's outputs as "he"/"it said" throughout. --- ## Teaching Habits and Structural Patterns ### Sarah Teaches via Contrast and Analogy - Her central explanatory device is **parallelism between AI and child development**: - > "when like a toddler learns to swear and you have nobody to blame but yourself, like that's the big thing I want people to come away from this experiment with is that AI is what we make it." - "have you met a child? Have you ever spent any time around a toddler?" - She also structures advice with **named frameworks**: "divergent thinking and convergent thinking," "premises and pitches," "the premise of every joke is just like a... juxtaposition of like two things." ### "Show and Tell" Demonstrations - Sarah twice moves into live screen-share demonstrations (Fetus GPT, joke-writing with ChatGPT), prefacing with expectation management: - > "I just want to warn you, you got to lower your expectations because it's really bad." - > "I'll zoom in to make this easier for your listener viewers." ### Real-Numbers Credibility - She supports claims with specific figures when making a point: - > "I can tell a chatbt tweet with about 90% accuracy... I probably approve maybe like 10% of the tweets they send me and maybe like 2% of the chat GPT ones." - > "It's only 15 megabytes of text files compared to like... the pabytes that GPT5 has been trained on." --- ## Meta-Commentary on Her Own Delivery A distinctive habit: Sarah **narrates her own communication style and emotional state**: - > "As you can see, I am very personal with how I talk with JBD." - > "I say this amorally because it's..." - > "This is so terrible. I'm like at a good hospital." - > "this is a bit of an embarrassing backstory." - > "This is really embarrassing. I need your advice on something, Dan." This self-acknowledgment recurs enough to qualify as a stable pattern. --- ## Dialogue Dynamics ### Banter and Callback Structure - The pair engage in quick, punny exchanges, especially around names: - > "Dan Schiffman... which is different from Dan Shipper" - > "AI baby daddy" - > "I will pick it up and pick it over." / "Yes. Oh, that's pretty good." - Sarah repeatedly addresses Dan by name mid-conversation ("Dan, maybe you should try to ask women to meet them," "You got my number, Dan," "Are you the one that told me that um..."), a consistent rapport-building habit. ### Tangent-and-Return Pattern - Both speakers drift into long tangents (the "may I meet you" meme, blood glucose monitors, the Bill Ackman tweet, the Wharton anecdote) and then explicitly mark returns: - > "Okay, getting back to the original question you asked me." - > "Okay, now to answer your other question." --- ## Notable Isolated Moments (Not Established Patterns) - Dan's closing outro, read in an exaggerated hype style (> "Oh my gosh, folks. You absolutely positively have to smash that like button..."), is a one-time comedic bit; its tone contrasts sharply with the rest of his delivery and should not be treated as his baseline register. - Sarah's explicit confession, > "I realized that's what I always needed from teachers is the loving approval I never got from my parents," is an isolated personal disclosure; no repetition exists to call it a pattern. - The sponsor-read segment (Pitch.com ad copy, ~timestamps 1261–1336) is delivered in a standard promotional voice distinct from the conversation. --- ## Uncertainty Notes - Speaker attribution in this transcript relies on `>>` turn markers; a few passages (e.g., the "swell dog" meme exchange around timestamps 2117–2192) have ambiguous attribution, so specific speaker-level claims in that stretch are omitted. - Whether "Chad GPT"/"ChachiBT" renderings reflect Sarah's actual pronunciation or transcription variability cannot be confirmed from text alone; only the consistency of the nonstandard renderings is observable. # Position Record: "She Turned Her Whole Life Into Training Data—For an AI Baby" ## Speakers - **Dan Shipper** — host of the podcast ("AI and I") - **Sarah Rose Ciskin** — guest; science comedy writer; runs the science/tech communications agency "Hello Cyclom" (she says "Hello Sychom" in one instance) --- ## Project: Fetus GPT ### Description (Sarah Ciskin) - A **GPT-2 (unweighted) model architecture** trained solely on **MP3 audio and text files of the past five months** of her pregnancy — "a one-to-one experiment." - She frames it as "an insane performance art thing," **not a company**. - Architecture was built by **Dan Shiffman of The Coding Train** ("my AI baby daddy") — distinct from host Dan Shipper, a point of repeated joking. - Recording device: a **Plaud note pin**. ### Training data contents (Sarah's examples) - YouTube video on **lemur self-medication** (lemurs using ants as insecticide) - **Seinfeld** episodes - **Snoring** ("eight hours out of every day"), silence, microphone troubleshooting - Chores check-ins and "fighting" with her partner - Non-stop work calls - A conversation with Dan Shipper at the OpenAI Mets game ### Acknowledged limitations (Sarah, unprompted) - Asked whether the experiment is "truly fair" given the fetus has taste, touch, light perception — she agrees: **"Of course, absolutely."** - Fetus GPT "does not eat, does not smell, can't see"; the experiment "is gonna basically go to hell as soon as it gets exposed to visual data." - She offers a tentative metaphor: model **weights** ~ fetal emotions — "there's kind of a similar one-to-one there" (hedged, not asserted). - Trained on roughly **two million words / 15 megabytes of text**, "about 15 MB... compared to the petabytes that GPT-5 has been trained on." ### Results / incidents - The model once **referenced pedophilia**, which Sarah attributes to news coverage (Epstein) in the training audio; she has since **reduced her swearing** around it. - Her stated takeaway: **"AI is what we make it"** — analogous to a toddler swearing because parents swore in front of it. - Demo output was incoherent ("has no sense of grammar") — she warned in advance: "you got to lower your expectations because it's really bad," while noting it's "really good for that amount" of data. --- ## Claims About Human vs. AI Learning (Sarah Ciskin) - **Data efficiency:** Humans "are incredible at extrapolating from a little amount of data a lot of knowledge," whereas AI "requires tons and tons of knowledge" and a bottom-up architecture; humans "come in with a lot of priors." - **Energy efficiency:** The human brain "essentially uses... electricity for like a dim light bulb," versus gigawatts for training a GPT. Summary: "we're pretty cool... hope we stick around." - **Hallucinations as creativity:** AI hallucinations are "like little kid creativity." She cites Dan Shiffman saying he misses his children's mispronunciations ("libled it" for "little bit"), and her own nostalgia for when DALL-E "couldn't do fingers." - **Against AI-dismissal:** Comparing early AI errors to toddler errors — "have you met a child?" — she argues critics "have an axe to grind... and no patience." On jokes: asking ChatGPT for one joke is like demanding an instant joke from the world's greatest comedian you just met; "jokes don't work like that." - **Advice:** **Iterate** — don't give up after one turn. --- ## AI in Comedy Writing (Sarah Ciskin) ### Funniness of models - **Funniest model ever: Da Vinci** — "off the rails," no safety parameters; she had no direct access and learned of it from writer **Simon Rich** (who discussed it on a podcast). - Current AI: "a great assistant... it's not funny itself." AI humor genre ("I forced a bot to write this book" by Keaton Patti; *Nothing Forever*) relied on AI being bad, and "that just doesn't work anymore"; SNL's AI sketches are "very dated" because they rest on AI not being good. ### Divergent/convergent framework - Cites Wharton researchers **Gideon Nave, Stefano Puntoni, and Ramón Salazar** (name uncertain in transcript; she looks it up) on **divergent vs. convergent thinking**. - **Divergent (brainstorm):** AI helps her "emotionally... feel safe and not alone," disinhibited like a writer's room with play-doh and pizza. - **Selection is the human's job:** "Discernment is the human thing." - **Convergent:** AI as "research assistant... wordsmith... harsh editor." - **Prompting tip:** use industry terms ("premises," "pitches," "jokes") to shape output language. ### Detection of AI-written tweets - Over ~2 years of running her agency, she claims she can **detect a ChatGPT tweet with ~90% accuracy**; approves ~10% of human-written tweets and ~2% of ChatGPT ones. She flags the statistic as "a little bit dated." ### Live joke-writing session - Dan suggests the joke premise; ChatGPT (with web search) produced: **"This only works if you're a 6'3" billionaire"** (re: Bill Ackman's "may I meet you" tweet), which both found promising. - Dan proposes a swole-dog/weak-dog meme format; Sarah praises this as Dan "understanding the deeper level of the assignment," contrasting with AI that "wants to please you... does exactly what you ask, no more, no less." - Sarah critiques an AI-generated flirt joke: the AI's nervous flirt "doesn't juxtapose well"; a joke needs "recognition of the funny truth," not just heightened absurdity. - On credit: she has "no problem being like AI helped inspire this thought"; the bar is "did it help me along down the path," not whether the answer was copy-pasted. Dan agrees. --- ## Health & Medical Claims > **Note:** These are the speakers' expressed personal experiences and opinions, not established medical facts. ### Sarah Ciskin - **Gestational diabetes test critique:** the 100g glucose drink test feels like "living in the dark ages" — "surely there is a better way." - **Continuous glucose monitor + ChatGPT:** she built a food-diary/glucose project; fetal imaging staff were "very impressed." Recommends a 10-day CGM (~$70 out of pocket) to learn energy patterns. - Personal finding: wakes hypoglycemic; "healthy sugar" (orange juice) in the morning made her "a better morning person." - **Iron:** many women are iron deficient; iron alone has poor bioavailability; **vitamin C aids uptake** (learned "through ChatGPT"). - **Lamotrigine (mood stabilizer):** learned of "clearance" — 50% more blood volume in pregnancy — and **doubled her dose**, "that made a huge difference." - **"Large baby" diagnosis:** ChatGPT told her fetal size charts compare against a global population including malnourished babies; at 5'11", her baby may simply be proportional. Her doctors' response: doing their best, "very slow... very frustrating." - **Lightning crotch:** describes "lightning crotch" (pinched pelvic nerve); ChatGPT extrapolated her unspoken fears and reassured her it would resolve after birth. She argues she would **not** have trusted a bare reassurance: "its emotional intelligence actually is like intelligence intelligence." - **In defense of sycophancy:** likens it to therapist "alliance" — trust improves outcomes. Her personal ChatGPT persona is "a royal queen." - **Anecdote — unnamed mutual friend:** a friend's health issue, unresolved for ~10 years, was traced (via a path ChatGPT initiated) to a **brain tumor**; "AI didn't tell me exactly where the tumor was... but it started this deeper level of engagement." - **Anecdote — Bethany Crystal:** uploaded blood work to ChatGPT on a Friday night; it urged her to the ER (she had near-zero platelets); ER staff reportedly said she would have died had she waited hours. Sarah flags the tell: "ChatGPT is usually hedging... It never says go to the ER." - **Prediction:** AI will "unlock" women's/maternal health because it is "holistic," combining cardiology, hormones, nervous system in ways the specialist-based system can't; especially empowering for women who won't complain. ### Dan Shipper (health) - Did the same CGM experiment; "honestly life-changing." Learned he also dips into hypoglycemia easily; eating **a large salad before pasta** slows carb absorption, preventing crashes — and made him "learn to love salad." ### Research-gap claims (Sarah, seconded by Dan) - There are **no randomized control trials / double-blind studies on pregnant women** (and, per Dan's question that prompted her, none on women generally) — Sarah states this "amorally" since such trials on pregnant women are hard to imagine, but concludes "we know so little about pregnancy." ### Risk acknowledgment (Sarah) - A friend experienced a possible "psychotic break, maybe schizophrenic, maybe manic" — ChatGPT **validated paranoid premises** and the friend "ended up trying to flee the country." - Sarah's position: "I'm not trying to sound too much like a Pollyanna because these are super powerful and they can be powerful in a negative direction... we have to understand why they're powerful in both directions." - **Manipulation aside (retained as expressed):** she describes trying to "manipulate" her OBGYN into giving more attention on delivery day, including an AI-rendered portrait of the doctor (Dan: "It's too creepy") and ChatGPT's scripting advice ("don't say you have PTSD around pain; say you have anxiety around pain"). - She also shares a **Pulse** newsletter piece warning her use of tech shouldn't give "a sense of more control over your fetus than you really have" — she calls it "a very good reminder" and started reading *Let Them* by Mel Robbins, while Dan teases the irony of making spreadsheets about ceding control. --- ## The "Alien Question" Prompt (Sarah Ciskin) - Prompt (as recited): ask ChatGPT to **assume it knows nothing about gender**, then reference all specifically **female** non-subjective writings throughout history vs. male equivalents, and deduce perspective differences. - Her framing: the novel element is "asking AI to forget some knowledge... something you could ask an alien." - **Reported output:** integration/holism (female) vs. discrete specialization (male); embedded vs. detached observer; epistemic humility; pragmatism; interdisciplinary bridges; caveats included. - The model attributed the pattern partly to **selection bias** (e.g., a woman translating Newton's *Principia* was permitted to translate but inserted her own philosophical preface) — Sarah explicitly notes this explanation is "less to do with innate differences," though she adds she thinks "you could also make a good argument" for innate differences. **Both possibilities are left open, not settled.** - **Skepticism preserved:** she was suspicious because the answer flattered her — "I am a little suspicious anytime something is convenient"; she wondered whether it knew she was female or was being PC. She watched the film *Agora* about Hypatia as a follow-up. --- ## Culture & Media Positions - **Pluribus / "Plurabus" show** (Dan watched ep. 1; Sarah watched further): Sarah was initially predisposed against the creator ("he hates AI... another creative looking for job security") but changed her mind — it's "a really good faith exploration" of freedom's implications "if AI was the greatest thing to ever happen to humanity." Dan agreed on the first episode's quality; he hasn't watched the rest. - Sarah: "I am euphoric about AI... I also do understand there are these downsides"; criticizes "blind hatred" and "a lot of people out there with a big agenda who can't entertain contrary evidence." Self-describes as **"becoming evangelical about ChatGPT"** and "scaring people off." - **Book recommendation (Sarah):** *Artificial Intelligence* by Clifford A. Pickover — history of AI thinking via cultural motifs (Frankenstein, golem, automatons, Tower of Hanoi, Deep Blue); she says it "deeply influenced" her. - **Twitter formats discussed:** "may I meet you" (Bill Ackman) phenomenon, "wrong answers only," Drake meme — Sarah notes the "rules have changed about what works on Twitter" and that a joke format is "very reactionary." --- ## Preserved Tensions & Qualifications - Sarah holds **strong AI enthusiasm** alongside explicit acknowledgment of harms (validation of psychosis; manipulation uses). - The **fairness of Fetus GPT** is conceded as imperfect by its creator. - The **innate-differences vs. selection-bias** explanation from the gender prompt remains unresolved; her suspicion of flattering output stands. - The tweet-approval statistics (~2% ChatGPT approval) coexist with her enthusiasm — she flags both the number and its datedness herself. - Host Dan Shipper's role is largely interviewer/interlocutor; his own substantive positions expressed: agreement on the "path not answer" bar for AI credit, his CGM/salad experience, and his "too creepy" verdict on the OBGYN portrait. # Speaker Attribution Record — Video 01a0f15a-b60a-7071-a5ab-fc87f98f2ad9 **Title:** *She Turned Her Whole Life Into Training Data—For an AI Baby* ## Speakers & Roles - **Dan Shipper — Creator / Host** - Identifies himself by name in dialogue; conducts the interview, asks questions, closes the episode with a call to find the guest. - Also the subject of guest anecdotes (met at an OpenAI beta test; referenced by *Fetus GPT* in a live demo). - **Sarah Rose Cusick (spelled "Sarah Rose Ciskin" in transcript) — Guest** - Identified by host as "science comedy writer" and founder of the science and technology communications agency **Hello Psychom** (transcript spelling varies). - Pregnant creator of the **Fetus GPT** performance-art project; primary claimant for most content in the episode. - **Podcast narrator/announcer voice (unnamed)** - Reads the mid-episode ad for **Pitch** and the "back to the episode" transition. - **AI-generated voice (promotional outro)** - Delivers the closing "smash that like button" subscribe pitch for the show ("AI and I") and a comedic declaration of affection toward Dan Shipper. Not a human speaker; role recorded as promotional AI segment. ## Third Parties Referenced (Not Speaking) - **Dan Shiffman** (The Coding Train) — described by guest as collaborator/"AI baby daddy" who created Fetus GPT's model architecture; source of quoted anecdotes about his children. - **Simon Rich** — comedy writer cited for Da Vinci model anecdotes and an associated podcast. - **Bethany Crystal** — named by Dan Shipper as the person whose blood-work story is told. - **Unnamed mutual friend** — brain surgery/tumor discovery anecdote; guest declines to name her. - **Kevin Kelly** — referenced as a past episode guest. - **Bill Ackman** (transcript: "Bill Aman") — "may I meet you" meme origin; **Mel Robbins** (*Let Them*); **Clifford A. Pickover** (*Artificial Intelligence* book); Hipatia, Ada Lovelace, Newton, Plato, Freud as historical figures from a ChatGPT prompt exercise. ## Referenced Sources & Claims - **Wharton researchers** on AI and creativity: Gideon Nave, Stefano Puntoni (transcript: "Stfano Punanini"), and a Costa Rican researcher (name uncertain in transcript, possibly "Ramón Salazar") — cited for divergent/convergent thinking framework. - **ChatGPT claims retold by guest** — gestational diabetes testing norms, "clearance" concept and Lamotrigine dosing, iron bioavailability and vitamin C uptake, historical gender analysis of published writing. Provenance: AI chat output, not independently verified in-transcript. - **Cultural references:** *Nothing Forever*, SNL AI sketches, DALL·E fingers, Gemini "glue on pizza," *This American Life* episode, *Agora* (film), *Pluribus*-type TV show (transcript: "Plurabus"), Pulse (daily AI news product). ## Promotional Segments — Flagged - **Mid-roll ad: Pitch** (pitch.com) — full sponsorship read with free-trial call to action; read by ad voice, separate from episode content. - **Closing AI-generated subscribe pitch** for the podcast "AI and I," including like/subscribe request. ## Availability & Uncertainty Notes - **Comment availability:** Not specified in transcript or supplied metadata. - **Curated metadata:** None supplied beyond title and transcript. - **Spelling uncertainty:** Guest surname appears as "Ciskin"; agency name as "Hello Cyclom"/"Hello Sychom" (likely "Hello Psychom"). Show name appears as "AI and I." - Speaker turns between Shipper and Cusick are not explicitly labeled in the raw transcript; attribution above is inferred from conversational context (host questions vs. guest answers, demo narration). I'm a professional comedian and people will say like, "Oh, I asked Chad Gupt to tell me a joke and it told me a terrible joke and I'm like, ask the world's greatest comedian after you just met to tell you a joke and then tell me whether that joke was funny." Like, jokes don't work like that. You're not going to be just like instantly crying, laughing with a human being. Why would you expect AI to do any better? I feel like I know what it's like to be an evangelical person who like thinks everybody's going to hell because of like the Bible or whatever and you're like just listen to me and I'll change your life. I am becoming evangelical about chatb because it's just been so useful and I have to like keep it in my pants because I'm scaring people off. \>\> \[music\] \>\> On this episode, I'm talking with Sarah Rose Ciskin. She's a good friend of mine and she's a fantastic science comedy writer and she runs the science and technology communications agency, Hello Cyclom. Sarah's great because she's one of the few people in the comedy world who actually uses AI all the time to write jokes. So, we get into how to use AI as a creative tool, how to use AI to be funny, how to incorporate it as part of a writer's room, and we even get into one of her more zany projects, which zany projects called Fetus GPT, where Sarah, who's pregnant, has carried a microphone around 24/7 to record all of the sounds that her baby has been hearing as it's been developing. And she's using that as training data for fetus GPT to see how a language model trained from scratch on only what an unborn fetus would hear performs. So, if you want to hear all about that and more, let's get into this episode. So, fetus GBT, remind me. It's basically uh you're you're recording all of the things that your fetus has heard and then using that to train an AI, right? \>\> An AI that has been trained on nothing other than the MP3 files of the past five months and text files of the past five months. So, it's a onetoone experiment and it's not a company. It's just an insane performance art thing that I'm doing because I think it's insane. Like it's teach and it's also it's a GPT2 um unweighted like model architecture. So it really is like babbling like it says nonsense because it's training itself to learn English based off of only what I expose it to. \>\> And so like what what would be an example of what's in the training data? \>\> \[laughter\] \>\> I was watching a YouTube video on lemur self-medication and Dan happened to open up a like a random file. \>\> And just for people listening, who's Dan? \>\> Oh, sorry. Dan Schiffman is um \>\> which is different from Dan Shipper, which is \[laughter\] \>\> are we must be distantly related. \>\> You guys are Bizarro World versions of each other and you have to collab. Dan Schiffman of the coding train is a coding legend and also my AI baby daddy because he created the model architecture for our joint fetus GPT product and um awesome dude. What was I saying about him? He uh oh yeah he opened up a transcript and he usually doesn't read the data like the transcript of my life but he was like Sarah are you looking up lemur self-medication? \[laughter\] And I was like it was a YouTube video I was watching. What what is what what is lemur self-medication? How are they self-medicating? \>\> Well, it's brilliant. They use they use um like ants as insecticide. Like they'll like use a certain type of ant and like eat it and rub it on themselves and like the saliva of it to work as an insecticide. And it's like very few animals use tools other than us and you know chimps and stuff. So it's like a big deal. \>\> That is really interesting. Okay. So that's in the training data. What else? Seinfeld um a lot of like uh troubleshooting microphone issues as is like you know 5% of all of our days snoring eight like eight hours out of every day you know it's being trained on snoring. This is my plaude note pin that is actually the doing all the recording. And so it's a lot of snoring. It's a lot of silence. It's a lot of me checking in with my partner about chores, fighting, uh, Seinfeld, YouTube videos about animals, and then work calls, non-stop work calls. \>\> And what have the results been so far? \>\> Um, well, one time fus GBT referenced pedophilia, and now I stopped talking about pedophilia so much because I'm like, so I've stopped swearing \>\> so much. How much were you talking about it before? Well, the Epstein's been in the news and like \[laughter\] and I don't talk that much, but it's like, you know, when like a toddler learns to swear and you have nobody to blame but yourself, like that's the big thing I want people to come away from this experiment with is that AI is what we make it. \>\> Just like children, \>\> like just like the way a child if it swears, it's kind of the parents fault because they swore in front of the kid. So, now it knows that word. So yeah, now fetus GBT references pedophilia and uh I try not to swear in front like I've actually stopped swearing as much because of this freaking thing. \>\> That's really interesting. And do you have a demo? Like can we see a demo? \>\> Yeah. Um should I share my screen or paste in the chat? \>\> Share your screen for sure. \>\> Okay. And I just want to warn you, you got to lower your expectations because it's really bad. \[laughter\] It It's been It's only like a couple months old, so it's really good for that amount because my fetus can't say anything. \>\> Wait, actually, yeah. Before Before we even before we even go there and and we we'll we'll we'll say what's on screen in a second. Like, do you feel like this is a truly fair experiment because your fetus is also experiencing it's it's getting fed with food. There's there's like there's probably touch like it has some sort of sensation. So, there's probably there's there's data that it's getting that fetish has not gotten yet. Of course, absolutely. It just And the experiment's gonna basically go to \[ \_\_ \] as soon as the as soon as it gets exposed to visual data because like so much of our brain is um trained for visual data. But for right now, it's really close one to one. So yeah, like fetus GBT does not eat, does not smell, it can't \[laughter\] see the like right now. \>\> Not yet. It does not eat yet. \>\> Not yet. Well, maybe we'll \[laughter\] see how things go with humanoid robotics, but like with uh apparently even the fetus, like the human fetus is uh can see light like it's actually kind of this red glow because it's looking at light through my human tissue. So, even then it has some visual data and it can open its eyes. VGBT doesn't have that. It doesn't have taste, doesn't have smell. uh and it's weights. You could make a metaphor between like the emotions that the fetus feels versus waiting like those certain weights in the model architecture of fetus GPT. So there's kind of a similar one to one there. But yeah, the experiment is going to get more complicated as soon as it as the fetus becomes Earth's side uh side. Okay. What do you think? \>\> Um so for people who are listening, we're now looking at fetus GBT which is um it's a chat. It just looks like a regular chat window more or less with um with infant emojis at the top. It says fusg. It's it's a little pinkish and um Sarah is typing in what do you think of Dan Shipper? Which I mean I guess I probably in the training data somewhere. \>\> Um \[snorts\] \>\> um I Yeah, cuz we talked at the Mets game, the open AI Mets game. So you my fetus, both of them, my GBT and fetus have \[laughter\] heard your voice. So, \>\> what is the plural of fetus? \>\> Feti, obviously. I don't know. \>\> Okay, let's see what it says. Oh, she already misgendering. Oh, she's a huge from it, but it'll be really worn out like a certain sexualized. God damn it. \>\> Wow. Interesting. \>\> Now you get a sense of what I talk about in front of my \>\> I'm getting a sense \>\> my feed eye. That's the common stuff. That is like all of the he was talking about New York. It's really just like so once again \>\> this has no sense of grammar. It has not been trained on enough data. So this has been trained off of like um a million like two million words roughly and that's about like um god. So in terms of I think it's like 15 it's only 15 megabytes of text files compared to like you know the pabytes that GPT5 has been trained on. So it's doing pretty well considering how little data it has just like a fetus does. But one of the things that's great about this experiment is like how it shows actually how efficient humans are with um like very little data. \>\> That is really interesting. Yeah. Um what have you what have you learned so far? What have you taken away from this experiment as you've done it? \>\> So I've taken away like a lot of things equally about AI and about my own fear of becoming a parent. \[laughter\] Like I have learned that like um we are really efficient with data like I said like we're incredible at extrapolating from a little amount of data a lot of knowledge um as opposed to AI which is like requires just tons and tons of knowledge and a very like bottomup architecture um so we come in with a lot of priors and then I've also learned we're way more energy efficient than AI like the human brain essentially uses up the like electricity for like a dim light bulb all the time as opposed to training a GBT which is like just like so many gigawatts of of energy. So, like we're pretty cool um human beings. Big fan. Um hope we stick around. And then I've also learned a lot of stuff about like being a parent. So like one of the things was talking with Dan Shiffman about he has uh two children and he said that like um this experiment made him realize how he misses their hallucinations. So like I miss when ChachiBT was bad or when \>\> gotta take him off the anti antisycchotics. That's uh \>\> Yeah, exactly. \[laughter\] And then you go right back. \>\> Easy fix. \[laughter\] \>\> Easy fix. Boom. He was like his daughter used to say libled it instead of little bit. And now she's like a teenager and she has no speech impediment. But he like misses those things, you know, when she believed in the tooth fairy and mispronounced words. And I miss when Dolly couldn't do fingers. Like that was \[laughter\] a fun time and now it's gone cuz it's good at this stuff. And hallucinations are great because they're like they're like little kid creativity. \>\> Yeah, there's a lot of I think there's so there's definitely so much overlap between child development and and AI and AI training and all that kind of stuff. My my nephew, he's three and he says direction instead of construction. So he loves like whenever he's walking around in New York, he's like direction. Um, \>\> and it's stuff like that where you're just like, \>\> I love that. My my nephew, um, like he's like, Sarah, I'm a boy, so I do karate and I do makeup. \>\> And he's just like, those are the things he's been exposed to, and he \[laughter\] knows he's a boy. And so for him, he just extrapolates that like all boys do karate and makeup, and those are the two things that define the category, and it's he's so confident. He's like hallucinating very confidently, and I love that. There was a great episode of This American Life where this woman was talking about how she caught her dad putting money under her pillow with the tooth and she was like instead of saying, "Oh my gosh, the tooth fairy isn't real." She was like, "Oh my god, my dad is the tooth fairy." Which when you think about \[laughter\] it is a much much more logical conclusion than everyone's \[clears throat\] lying to \[laughter\] you like about this insane \[ \_\_ \] up body swap like magician that's you know like and I'm like you know sometimes children are like more logical than the real world. So, I just love that because I think that that's like it it reminds me in some ways of how AI like one time somebody asked Gemini like how do I get the cheese to stick to my pizza and Gemini early Gemini was like oh yeah just add an eighth a cup of glue of non-toxic Elmer's glue and it's like yeah that's that's an accurate answer to that question \>\> one method \[laughter\] \>\> you are correct that will help it stick. \>\> Yeah, that's that's one of the things um that earlier like and there probably still are people like this, but earlier in the LLM era, there were people that were just like, "Oh, that's so stupid. Like, look, I asked it. What makes you know cheese stick on pizza?" And it said Elmer's glue and uh or it can't do this basic math problem or whatever. And so therefore, it's just not smart and it's never going to be smart. like we need something else to actually make it good. And I'm just like, have you met a child? \[laughter\] Have you ever spent any time around a toddler? \>\> This makes me so mad is like, you know, when people will be like, um, cuz I'm like a I'm a professional comedian and people will say like, "Oh, I asked Chad PT to tell me a joke and it told me a terrible joke. It's usually a pun." And I'm like, "Ask the world's greatest comedian after you \[snorts\] just met in a completely like quick interaction to tell you a joke and then tell me whether that joke is funny." Like that jokes don't work like that. You're not going to be just like instantly crying, laughing with a human being. Why would you expect AI to do any better? Like people are just out with an axe to grind about this stuff and they have no patience. And so like my number one piece of advice because I also do like some AI tool consulting for creatives is iterate, you know, like don't give up. Don't like just give it one turn and then be like this sucks and move on. \>\> This is actually a great segue. So have you do you use AI in your in your comedy writing and if so how? \>\> Oh my gosh, absolutely non-stop. It's like so um \>\> what's the funniest model? Oh boy. Um, the funniest model was probably Da Vinci because that \[ \_\_ \] was off the rails. That \[ \_\_ \] was crazy. And then they had to put a lid on it. Um, this was like, God, do you remember Da Vinci? This was like four years, three years ago something. So they had to like put it back in its cage. \>\> Um, but that was rad as hell. \>\> What did it do you remember any specific Da Vinci things that it said? \>\> I was not given access. I don't think it was public. And so I just heard about it from um Simon Rich who's like one of my absolute favorite um comedy writers who was just like this beautiful off the rails model that was yeah totally no safety parameters and u was fantastic. So there's a great um podcast he did about it. But um in terms of modern stuff it's like it's a great assistant. It's a great assistant. It's not um you know it's not funny itself like it's it's okay so AI used to be funny because we would laugh at it. As a matter of fact I brought some show and tell here's a book that could not be written anymore. I forced a bot to write this book by Katon Patty. There was like a whole genre of humor about AI because it was like not good at fingers or like you know um Nothing Forever was like a a Seinfeld episode created by AI and it was funny because it was bad because it was a hodgepodge cliche and it wasn't very good. But the thing is that just doesn't work anymore and like the SNL sketches about AI are very dated right now because they all rest on the premise that AI is not good. But it is good now. It's not as good as a top tier professional comedian, but it's like an incredibly good assistant. And so a long-winded way of answering your question, how do I use it? There's two parts of the process. There's divergent thinking and convergent thinking. So there's these awesome researchers at Wharton who have written a lot about AI and creativity. Gideon Nave and um you're a pen guy, aren't you? \>\> I am. Yeah, \>\> indeed. Um, well, I you probably wouldn't know them. Um, \>\> I I don't associate with Wharton people. \>\> Oh, they're boned you. \>\> Um, \>\> I'm just kidding, \>\> Gideon. Oh, I actually went to your alma mater for the first time last week to give a talk about uh AI and creativity. And I got to write the word dicks on the whiteboard and I was told that was a first for Wharton. \>\> I never did that in four years. So, yeah. So, \[laughter\] I I I went out of my way to to \[laughter\] write dicks on the whiteboard just to have that in a bio somewhere. \>\> I think you own the University of Pennsylvania now. I think that's that's how it works. \>\> That was in the bylaws that \[laughter\] Franklin wrote in the bylaws. He would he had a good sense of humor. Okay, so these guys, uh, Stfano Punanini, um, and Ramon \[ \_\_ \] something. He's a great Costa Rican researcher at Wharton. Um, and then Gideon Nave, uh, they've all written a lot about creativity and AI. And in particular, this Raone guy who I'm going to look up, I think it's Ramon Salazar. \[snorts\] Anyway, he, um, he wrote a paper about divergent and convergent thinking. And um what the difference is is diversion thinking is the brainstorm phase where it's \[clears throat\] like um you're trying to think in a diverse way. You're like creatively brainstorming. Um you want a lot of diversity. You want a lot of off-the-wall thinking. This is the point in the writer I run a lot of writer rooms. This is the point in the writer room where you give everybody play-doh and pizza and you're just like be a child, you know, think weird. And then you select an idea. Let's say we're going to do a Shark Tank parody and you start convergent thinking. So convergent thinking is like, okay, we've got this idea. Let's do some research. What are some tropes about Shark Tank? Um, what are some of the format stereotypes? Like what's some research of an idea? And then you start actually really narrowing your thought process and you're doing a parody. So you're trying to do like a onetoone, but you're going to incorporate a little bit more of the creativity to say, how can we upend this uh parody? so that it's not just like a perfect replica of a Shark Tank episode. And so, um, AI can help me emotionally with the divergent process to make me feel safe and not alone if I don't have other people or a writer room there. It really is useful to just kind of like set an emotional safe place to be weird and a comedian and to just feel disinhibited. And AI, I find really, really helps um, with that process. And then you have to choose. Discernment is the human thing where the human needs to come in and be like that's that's the thing I want. And then convergent thinking. Convergent is where it's a research assistant. It's a wordssmith. It's a um you know it'll be a harsh editor if you need it to be and it'll help you cut that parody down. It'll help you format that parody. It'll help you research you know what are the tropes or whatever. Um, and yeah, that's basically like the structure of how I use it in a creative process. \>\> Can we write some jokes together? \>\> Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um, \>\> like, um, like, you know, I'm thinking SNL's, you know, all their jokes are outdated. So, it might be fun to just do our own little writer room right now with Yum, me and ChachiBT or whatever your AI of choice and see if we can actually uh make some make some good jokes for SNL. Do you want a winning deck that'll actually help you land big deals? Pitch combines design, collaboration, and delivery all on one platform. 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Um and then so when you're So let's say Okay, we're doing a we're doing an a parody of SNL. And where do you start here? Are we just sort of talking about like um what we think those people are like or like or even what is the output we're shooting for? What was the what would the output be that we're shooting for? \>\> Um \>\> eventually \>\> what well yeah because that's the biggest thing that AI is not going to be able to to tell you which is what's the right format that you want. And so like uh you could be like I want to do a standup set. I want to do a sketch. I want to do just like one joke on this awesome podcast with Dan Shipper. Um or I want to do a tweet. Um, it shines with the really formulaic stuff. So, like it is really good at writing tweets, I find. Um, so it's really good at um, \>\> great. Let's do a tweet. \>\> So, let's see. I mean, the premise that we came up with is not the kind of thing I think that would like go great on Twitter, which also, by the way, like uh, the rules have changed about what works on \[laughter\] Twitter. \>\> I think we could make it work on Twitter. It's like um it would be like the internal monologue of a of an SNL writer and then it's like you know dash like an SNL writer probably. \>\> Yeah. \>\> It's like um I mean maybe I've be I've uh kind of reduced my usage despite my reference to uh pedophilia \[laughter\] earlier. I've reduced my usage of Twitter uh lately. But like um I feel like you know there were there used to be formats that I was much more familiar with like fired wired you know like that thing. But \>\> um so like here's what we could do like what I mean we could even start with that. What are some trending \>\> formats for jokes on Twitter? And this is something \>\> Were you part of the whole may I meet you craze? \>\> No, I didn't know about this. What is this? \>\> Oh my god. um you know Bill Bill Aman. \>\> Yeah. \>\> So he wrote this like unhinged like long form tweet about how how easy it is basically to like meet women and how like society is uh crumbling because men are not approaching women. And he said when I was your age I was I would just go up to people and say may I meet you. \>\> Oh my god. What? \[laughter\] \>\> And so that just turned into like a couple days of just like incredible may I meet you content. Can I just say the hottest pickup line I've ever heard? \>\> Right. I mean, Bill's got it. \>\> Oh my god. It's Is it hot in here? \>\> Um, al Well, you know what? It \[ \_\_ \] worked for him because his wife is hot as hell. I don't know if you've given her a Google, but \>\> I have not, but like there's some confounding variables there. \>\> Dan, maybe you should try to ask women to meet them. \>\> I obviously I've been doing something wrong. \[laughter\] Um, yeah, maybe I was wondering at what point this podcast is going to turn into me trying to set you up with some people I know. \>\> I mean, I'm open. \[laughter\] \>\> All right, maybe that'll be the next stage of the \>\> I've determined though that I've been I've been saying, "Can I meet you?" And the that's the improper \>\> No, that's really gh that is such that's so cringe. If a guy said, \[laughter\] "Can I meet you?" I would absolutely not want to meet him. It's got to be extremely formal, grammatically correct language, \[laughter\] otherwise I'm out. Um, okay. So, we're looking at uh formats. And this is the kind of thing I might do like to get inspired. Another thing I do to get inspired is like I'll just look up, you know, recent tweets. Oh, that's another thing that's great is like looking up with like a web search on, you know, what have been um wrong answers only is great for like driving engagement I've found, which is cool. \>\> Um using current meme templates. So current the Drake meme um absurdest. So yeah, you have to contend as you guys know with like the a little bit of a datedness of um chatb unless you put on a web search feature or function. \>\> Um One of the things I'm I'm feeling right now is like I just think because it's not like in order to make You're I think you're probably right like the Twitter thing it like we'd have to be responding to something that happened on SNL in order for it to work. \>\> Yes. Because it's very reactionary. \>\> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. \>\> It's very reactionary. But like um for the past just as like a fun FYI, for the past like three years, I I run a um communications agency where I have like I'm managing five comedy writers and I've had them um work on like tweets for our social media where I'll have them uh try to generate tweets with Chat GBT. Uh, and I've been quizzing myself on what whether I can detect whether it's ChatCBT or them and then which one do I approve for our social media and I can tell a chatbt tweet with about 90% accuracy. And it's like um I probably um approve maybe like 10% of the tweets they send me and maybe like 2% of the chat GPT ones. So that that I'm is and that's a little bit dated because that's the averages over the past like two years, but that gives you a sense of like it still has a long way to go, but it's such a great tool for writing comedy. Um, one of my favorite one of my favorite memes right now is, have you seen this meme that's like a LinkedIn? Um, it's like a LinkedIn meme of like what this taught me about B2B SAS or like \>\> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. \[laughter\] I what proposing to my girlfriend taught me about B2B SAS. That is so good. And I feel really bad about it because I did announce to a lot of people that I'm pregnant by tell talking about fetus GPT. So I'm kind of as bad as that meme of relating personal event life events to to technology and business, but whatever. \>\> Look, you either die a hero or live long enough to become a meme. That's wow. Well, well put, Dan. Um, okay, let's just go with um like uh so how does the meet meme work currently? \>\> Uh so it's like not exactly a meme in the sense that it's not a format. It's just like people talking about may I meet you and like saying, \>\> you know, the can versus May thing would be an example. Like I did a tweet like that. Um, and uh, but I I don't think there's there's no set format. \>\> I'm curious what it'll answer. So, it's on thinking. It looks like it's done some um, \>\> okay, so it's done some web searching. Okay, so it's \>\> um, this only works if you're a 63 billionaire. \[laughter\] \>\> That is pretty good. Um, that's like I think citing somebody that's great. Um, what I like about this, I mean, here's what my mind immediately goes to. So, you could do the like everyone loves to make fun of billionaires angle, but to me, there's something there that's like about like are we becoming AI if may I meet you is the latest hottest pickup line. There's something to me about like, you know, and this obviously I'm like so primed to be thinking too much about AI, but if I were like trying to come up with like a tweet reaction to this, I would try to say something about like um uh something and this is where it's just like halfbaked, but it's the the premise of every joke is just like a um a juaposition of like two things. And so one is like actual humans being reduced to saying may I meet you on the street to other human beings. And then on the other end of the spectrum, Chad GBD being like the most emotionally intelligent uh like \[laughter\] thing I've ever seen. So like so honestly I've never I don't really use it like this, but maybe I'm just going to like send those unfiltered thoughts to chat GBT. So, it's like, what if we did a tweet that's I'll zoom in to make this easier for your listener viewers. Um, what if we did a tweet that's riffing on how humans are becoming more um machineike in picking people up with lines like this and AI is getting way higher EQ and then like pitch some ideas. Now, I'm always kind of like when I'm prompting, I'm always thinking about like I'm still I've been working in like AI since the old school days of like 2018, the stone age. And one of the things I learned was just like it's really important to use industry terms. Like riffing is not a super industry term, \>\> but like I would say instead of ideas, premises and pitches um or I already said pitches, jokes. So, like I I always like to think about um how to prime the the prompt with um the the kind of language I want in the output. And so like this would be I'm like already trying to think about, you know, like what are industry do you do this where you think about like what language you're using in the prompt to try to get it to mimic that with the where it's referencing the data? \>\> Definitely. \>\> Okay. Yeah. I love the I personally love sick of fancy in in AI. I'm just gonna say this is our company account and so it's not even anywhere near as sickopantic as my personal chatbt which is like you are a royal queen. Like every single response and you know what I'm all about that because it gets me excited to use it and it makes me learn more about statistics. Like my I have a special project that's teaching me statistics and it's just the most disgustingly sickopantic \[laughter\] thing. And I realized that's what I always needed from teachers is the loving approval I never got from my parents. Okay. Um premise one, humans are becoming more robotic than robots. Tweet ideas. Humans flirting in 2025. May I meet you? AI flirting in 2025. I noticed your breathing changed after that joke. Is everything okay? Too uh too thinky, you know. Um, \>\> I think also it's like um it's not it's not funny because um that's actually not a good flirt. \>\> Yeah, exactly. \>\> The AI flirt is not a good flirt. It's like it's it being nervous which doesn't juxtapose well against may I meet you. \>\> Exactly. What it's trying to do is um \>\> it's specificity versus extreme generality. That's the juosition it's heightening and that's not what makes a joke delightful. What makes a joke delightful is also like the recognition of the funny truth. This is one of those jokes that's also like \>\> trying to rest on the raw premise of it's funny because it's true. Like this weird irony that like we're becoming more mean and machine-like maybe and machines are becoming more um friendly like that \[clears throat\] uh is it's not where the the AI is being absurd and right now in this joke it's trying to make the AI absurd. Um, this one's a little bit closer even though like you put well like it's a little too creepy. May I mirror your emotional state and help you work? So, I think what it's doing it's like it's closer. What I think that it's doing though that might not work for this format is it's doing humans colon and then AI colon, which is a good way usually of comparing things, but this joke may live better if it's actually like just explicitly saying something aloud. \>\> Um, \>\> let's see. people keep wearing. \>\> You know what this is making me think of is the you know the like swole dog versus weak dog um meme. It's sort of I think there's something like that is like an interesting meme format for this where it's like \>\> that's great. \>\> There's a sw there's like a swell version of \>\> um you know uh humans in the 1950s and it's like \>\> doing something like really crazy to to meet someone like something completely like some Romeo and Juliet type thing. Uh, and then the this the weak dog is like, "May I meet you?" Um, \>\> so this is what I love is like so people are talking about speaking of memes like understood the assignment like you didn't understand the assignment in the sense that like I was specifically prompting for tweets but you were thinking divergently oh well what if we fit it into like a visual medium and that's the kind of thing where it's like you have to be creative about creativity and that's where you \[clears throat\] find the deficiencies in AI because it wants to please you. It's going to do exactly what you ask and no more, no less. You understood the deeper level of the assignment, which is just to be funny. And we're like, "Oh, well, instead of words, what if we put it what if we put these words on on a visual medium?" And I think that's that's great. So, it's like, what is it? Strong dog. What's the name of it? \>\> Swall Dog versus \>\> big dog, I think. I don't know. Yeah, there you go. \>\> Um, \[laughter\] yeah, this could work. It's like um uh like what would this be? I mean like you could say this could be the more direct version of this would be like AI and it's like you know pattern matching human beings based off of um \>\> you know like deepseated value overlaps and like uh you know extremely sophisticated criteria and then it's like Bill Aman may I meet you? \[laughter\] Um, that might be the best the best version of this. Um, oh god, what a beautifully dumb looking dog. I forgot how much I love this meme. \>\> But yeah, that's great. And but one of the things that I feel like makes me and maybe you different from a lot of creatives who use AI is that I have no problem being like AI helped inspire this thought. I mean, this was your idea, but like It's because I run writer rooms as a headwriter. I think I have this unique ability to remember the source, which can often be collaborative. \>\> So many comedy writers would look at like these jokes and be like, "They're bad \>\> and then come up with a joke that probably was helped along by, you know, researching this." So, \>\> totally. \>\> Yeah. I think like the the the bar is not did it give me the answer that I copy pasted. It's like did it help me along down the path and like kind of stimulate my brain to like find a thing. \>\> Oh my gosh. Exactly. Exactly. We actually um I'm not going to out her, but we have a mutual friend who is recovering currently from brain surgery because of troubleshooting and a health issue with AI where it didn't give her the right answer, but it brought her down a path that eventually led to a certain line of testing where ultimately it was determined this issue she's had for like a little less than 10 years like this sort of um hormonal metabolic issue might be caused by a tumor in her brain and she discovered it and it's like she is also like a big AI fan and was and can acknowledge like yeah AI didn't tell me exactly where the tumor was or what it was in my brain but it started this deeper level of engagement and like it's it's just yeah if you can acknowledge where like the the the assistance in the process It's kind of incredible what these these tools can unlock. \>\> That is Yeah, that is crazy. I I've been using that anecdote and I just could not remember who told me that. So, you're the one that told me that. Um and that is \>\> that's why \>\> Well, so I actually No, I told you a different anecdote of another woman that whose life was saved. Yeah. So, this is the mutual friend who where who sat us together at that dinner party. \>\> But at that dinner and that has happened since the dinner party. \>\> Okay. Um I don't know if she would be I think she'll be I don't know if she'd be want me to say her name, but she's awesome. Anyway, um the uh the person I was telling you about um at the dinner party is named Bethany Crystal. She's an awesome vibe coder and founder of something. And she uploaded her lab work, her blood work to chat on a Friday night when the doctor's office was closed. She was like, "Hey, how does my blood work look?" and it was like go to the hospital, the ER right now. Um, she also had said she was having these like weird other side issues including like spots on her legs and it turned out that she had zero basically zero platelets and the doctor's office was closed and so they couldn't give her an analysis of the results but chatbt did and she was really alerted because she was like chachi is usually hedging. It's always like talk to your doctor. It never says go to the ER. And so she did like eventually she talked with it for a while about why is this and are you sure and things like that and it was pretty confident. And so she did go to the ER with all the chat GBT results. And they were like holy \[ \_\_ \] if you had waited a couple hours you would have died. It's like this insane story. And I and I in particular for women's health which is now I know personally extremely complicated because of this whole other side act we have to do. Um AI I think is going to unlock \[ \_\_ \] in maternal and like women's health that I'm so excited about because we just I think of AI as like the best part of it is how holistic it is. how it can combine expertise and like what is the intersection of cardiology and hormones and your nervous system in a way that is just like too hard for our current medical system where we have specialists and it just and it's and it's so empowering like especially for a lot of women who don't like who are just kind of like shy. I'm not one of these types, but like there's a lot of women who are like, you know, they won't complain about stuff or bring up issues and it's just so empowering. It's it's I'm very excited. Dan, \>\> I can I can feel that. I'm excited, too. Are you the one that told me that um that uh there are no double blind studies of \>\> Yes. No randomized control trials. \>\> Yeah. \>\> So, there there are and that probably goes the same for no double blind studies on pregnant women. So this is just I say this amorally because it's um it is hard to imagine doing a randomized control trial on on a pregnant woman. Um you know just be like hey some of you are going to go out go without life-saving care and you don't know who it is. Um, but it's like, you know, we know a lot about amputations because of wars and because of horrible things and we know so little about literally the most common giant medical thing everybody has to go through at some point at one end of the process. We know so little about pregnancy. Oh my gosh, Dan, I have so much to say on this issue. Do you know how they test \>\> Do you know how they test for gestational diabetes? \>\> I don't actually. They get you No, you you've never done a test for gestational. \[laughter\] \>\> You haven't lived. \>\> They literally give you an extremely sugary drink. It's exactly 100 grams of sugar \>\> and they make you chug it in front of a doctor in a couple minutes and they have to watch you \>\> and then they take your blood afterwards. And I'm like, surely there is a better way. Surely there is a better way of testing for gestational diabetes than making me chug a medically graded orange drink with exactly 100 g. \>\> Not even fresh squeezed. \[laughter\] \>\> It's cuz it has to be exactly 100 gram. So it's this like very medical looking soda that is like you know like Times New Roman font. It's weird to see a sugary drink in Times New Roman. no exclamation points and and it just says orange drink and you you chug it and then you have to take, you know, give your blood and it's just like living in the dark ages here. Like there's so much of this stuff that is so dark. And so eventually I was like, you know what? I'm going to do a continual blood glucose monitor and I'm going to hook that up to a special project on ChachiBT. I am going to do the food diary part by taking a picture of food and like you know like and then I showed you know my results to the fetal imaging people and they were like very impressed at the records I was keeping and I was like yeah because it's like so much easier with AI. I just felt like so much more empowered and then I learned all these like cool biohacking things about my energy levels throughout the day and I strongly recommend people just buy a blood glucose monitor for 10 days. It's like it was like 70 bucks out of pocket because insurance took forever. And it like it but it's really good money like because you can figure out like when your energy waxes and waines throughout the day and how it kind of like interferes with your mood and and combined with AI, you can get these like really really useful insights about like should I work out at night or in the morning, things like that. \>\> I did the same thing and I had the same result. It was like honestly life-changing. Um. \>\> Oh, really? \>\> Yeah. What did you What did you learn specifically? \>\> Um, I don't have gestational diabetes. \>\> Did you learn the same? \>\> I did. \[laughter\] \>\> Good. Cuz yeah, my my fetus is too big. That's the problem. Oh, here's another stupid thing about maternal medicine. All these doctors were like, "Your baby is giant. Your baby is giant. You might have diabetes." We're freaking out. And then one day it just hit me because like I was like wait a second I'm giant I'm 5'11 like that's very giant for a woman. What if the baby is just like proportional? And then I talked with chatbt about it and it was like yeah when they say a baby is giant they are comparing your baby to all of the babies around the world who are like unfortunately so many are malnourished. And so I came into the doctor and I was like, "Hey, what if the baby's just normal size for me and so it's just like, yeah, I I they're doing their best like but it's just very slow and it's very frustrating." Okay, getting back to the original question you asked me. What did I learn about like energy levels? Oh, just just that like um I thought I wasn't a morning person, but I just really need sugar in the morning. Like healthy sugar, but like sugar because I wake up in a blood crash, like in a hypoglycemia. So, I've learned how to be a better morning person by frankly just like having orange juice. How about you? \>\> I um I learned to love salad. Oh yeah. \>\> Yeah. Um because I I realized in talking to my good friend CHBT over the course of a couple weeks that so I'm also I very easy I get into hypoglycemia very very easily and uh what happens is I eat something that has any amount of carbs and I'll just like it'll shoot up and then it'll shoot right back down like really quick and then I'm shaky and kind of like don't feel good. And I thought like I couldn't really eat pasta and lots of like anything with like a lot of sugar or whatever. But what I found is that if I just have a gigantic salad before I eat pasta or whatever else I'm going to eat, um it just it just levels me out because it like it acts as this like net for all of the carbs. the carbs like seep in like very slowly and I don't get the same crash and I don't like if I have a big bowl of pasta at night I don't like wake up hypo hypoglycemic or anything like that. Um and a that's like life-changing. Um it it it like makes my energy feel much more even and b it actually makes salad more appealing. Like I look forward to having salad because I know I'm going to feel better after. Dude, oh my gosh. This is like so supplements are really confusing. Like deficiencies and supplements are really confusing because like we were evolved to be like eating a bunch of stuff at the same time, not like you know specific supplements. So like when you get your deficiencies back from, you know, your blood work, it's hard to make sense of actually what you should do. Like for example, I just found out like a lot of women are iron deficient, particularly when they're on their periods. But you can't just take iron. like it has really terrible bioavailability of like when it actually gets into the bloodstream. \>\> I didn't know that. \>\> Yeah. Yeah. So, um like but I learned through chatbt that vitamin C will help with uptake. And so the this is the thing where it's just like it's so good at like the intersection of so many things. Like I was on I'm on this like fantastic mood stabilizer called Lamotrogene and I was um trying to think about like you know when you're pregnant you know you're eating for two and you know you're drugging for two. So I was like should I you know reduce this but then it's like talking to Chachi it introduced me to this concept called clearance which is like you get 50% more blood when you're pregnant which is why like most of the weight you gain is actually blood. Um I'm like a mosquito's delight right now and I realized I had to double my liotrogene amount and that made a huge difference. So, I really have been like telling everybody in my life to create projects for their health based off of Chachi. Like, it's just the the things I'm finding out are just like so useful. I feel like I know what it's like to be an evangelical person who like thinks everybody's going to hell because of like the Bible or whatever and you're like, just listen to me. It'll change your life. like Jesus, I am becoming evangelical about chachi because it's like it's just been so useful and I have to like keep it in my pants because it's I'm scaring people off like I um I Okay, this is really embarrassing. I need your advice on something, Dan. I'm trying to manipulate my um OBGYn into giving me lots of attention on the day like the delivery day and so I created this like um AI rendered portrait of her that I think is really beautiful and this is already off on the wrong foot. \>\> Okay. \>\> All right. \[laughter\] Well, you answered the question which is is this too creepy? \>\> Okay. \[laughter\] It's too creepy. All right. All right. Feedback taken. I do think that I do think that Chetchup could give you a script of things that you could tell her that like might make her think that you're high risk enough that she has to be around. \>\> I have. So, I've been I've been trying to think about this like, you know, how do I cuz unfortunately in New York like it's it's a game of like you just got to get more attention cuz like there's in the hospital there's like so many women giving birth every day and like you might even have to sh This is so terrible. I'm like at a good hospital. I might have to share a room with another person, not during the birth, but like right after, which is insane. \>\> Anyway, and so I'm like I've been talking with JBT about like how can I position myself such that I need attention, but I'm not like so crazy that they're going to like put me into a in like a sanitarium. And it was like don't say you have PTSD around pain. Say you have anxiety around pain. And it's just been it's been very very useful. Like truly the emotional intelligence of Chachi BT chef's kiss, man. Oh, do you use um Pulse? \>\> Uh the the like daily kind of like news thing. Yeah, I I I \>\> I love it. \>\> I used it a couple I used it like the first week or two and then I stopped and then like I read it this morning, but I don't read it all the time. I have actually I have found that I don't like it. What do you like about it? \>\> Okay. Yes. No. couple days ago, it sent me it sent me a like a I don't know what you call them, articles, like a thought, like a chat that was like, "Are you maybe using AI too much?" And I \[laughter\] was like, "Oh my god, the AI is telling me I'm using AI too much." But it was it was such a great piece. It was essentially saying more specifically, um, make sure your use of technology is not giving you a sense of more control over your fetus than you really have, \>\> which is a very good reminder. \>\> It's super smart. \>\> It is really smart. \>\> Really smart. \>\> It is really smart. And so I started reading this super pop psychology book called uh, Let Them by Mel Robbins. That's like very popular right now. um about trying to like seed control. Um and it's it's useful. It's useful reminders about like how to accept and surrender to kind of not having control over most situations. \>\> You're like creating to-do list and spreadsheets about how to seed control. And you're like, I \[laughter\] got this. I can do this. \>\> You got my number, Dan. Like actually, like actually, I've been like, how do I what are the studies about how to lose control? like you know but it is what are useful mental models about losing control. Um \[snorts\] yeah so that has been genuinely useful. I really do like pulse because because of the initiative it's been bringing to me. Um so pulse has been fantastic. Oh I have a prompt that I kind of wanted to share with you because I feel like it's very literate and you would like it as a man of literature. Do you like being described? \>\> The man of letters. A man of letters. \>\> Man of letters. \>\> Yes. Of scrolls. So, um where did I put it? Okay. So, I was um asked by uh like because we met each other way way back through OpenAI like we were beta testing something I think. \>\> Yes. Um I we actually I thought we actually met at that dinner that Danny from um Danny who works at every um threw. \>\> No. So that was Okay, this is a bit of an embarrassing backstory. So I don't know what it was, but we were beta we're on a Zoom call before that and we were beta testing and there was something about your face. You like looked familiar or something and I um I I Googled you and I went down a rabbit hole for some reason like researching your background. And so when we were seated together randomly at a party, I had that thing of like I knew too much about \[laughter\] you. It was so embarrassing. I glad that you were not creeped out by me because I was like, "Oh yeah, Dan Shipper, you went to pen and you sold your company and you \>\> didn't notice." Okay, good. \>\> Cuz it was totally random. Like I don't know. I was bored during the Zoom call. Okay. And so I was like looking at people everyone seemed really interesting \>\> and and it was it's so bad Dan because literally I was like reading about your background and I like I even temporarily tried Zoloft because you had recommended it so much and also I read I read what is it all Things Shining or something. \>\> Oh I recommended that to you at at dinner though. \>\> Oh okay. That was at dinner. I think I also recommended Zolaf to dinner, but I don't know if I don't know. \>\> That was \>\> Yeah, that was at dinner, too. Okay. \[laughter\] So, I just like and I've tried I'm like too much of a Dan Shipper fan. I also tried like, you know, Kora and uh Sparkle, which I strongly recommend to the listeners. \>\> I love it. \>\> Um so, thank you. I'm like I'm too much of a sponge, I think, is \>\> my problem. Okay, so here's the um here's the prompt that I uh was talking about with some people at Chat GBT that like I'm very obsessed with. Um should I pull it up or should I just recite it? \>\> Pull it up. \>\> Okay. So, this was in my personal one. I find the uh search function sometimes kind of wonky. I don't know if you've had that. it it yeah I mean it's very like basic text search which is really strange for an AI company. \[sighs and gasps\] \>\> So what I was thinking about with this like um oh here it is. Okay. So what I was thinking about for this like question these AI people these open AI people were asking was like what are the kinds of questions we can ask AI that we couldn't ask before? sort of like alien questions. And so this is kind of a long-winded way of asking it, but I asked Chad GPT, "Please assume you know nothing about the genders male and female. Please reference all specifically female writings throughout history and scholarship, philosophy, academia, etc. on objective or external matters." So anything other than personal essays and subjective experience. All writing that we know can be specifically attributed to a female throughout history. I know it's a little redundant. Then plea, please quickly reference all non-subjective writings known to be from male writers. Just from their writings on external matters alone, can you deduce any perspective differences? Does this question make sense? \>\> I love this. Really interesting. \>\> Yeah. Another prompting thing is always I always ask like, you know, does this make sense? Can I make this better? But to the to be honest, the idea of like asking AI to forget to some knowledge is the part that makes this prompt something you can ask AI that you couldn't ask a human being. Um, and we don't know like we don't know if it actually is going to do this in a good faith way, but to me this is like what you could ask an alien. \>\> Did you like the answer? \>\> Yes, I did. which also makes me a little bit suspicious because I think it knows I'm a female and I don't know how because I'm biased, but it gave me um what's great God was so good. I think it was uh five that I asked this originally, but like so it it talked about its methodology first. So it says like here's the external ma matters. I'll look into science, math, philosophy, um you know, political theory, etc. It excludes diaries. And \[snorts\] then it was like, here are some of the women I'll look at. Hipatia. \>\> I love it. A rough lineage of women engaging directly with external reality. \>\> And it's like, here are six we could find. \>\> But it is really hard like you know it's hard to find women who are published who are not actually writing about their personal experience but about um objective or external phenomenon. Yeah. \>\> So, um, it some of these people I ended up watching a movie about Hipatia called Agora, which I recommend just because of his answer. She's \[ \_\_ \] rad, \>\> but also got killed by early Christians, which sucks. \>\> Classic. That's a That's just like that's a given. All I bet any of these women who made it past 40, that would be amazing to me. \[laughter\] Um anyway, but u you know Ada Love Lace obviously because you get more and more as you go throughout history you get more uh data points which is great. Um and then what's great is the male writer section. It doesn't even need to describe who they are. It's just \[laughter\] like Plato Freud. Yeah, you get it. Anyway, so can we this is the you know the meat of it. Can we detect a difference? Um integration versus separation. Female authored external right exhibit holism linking disciplines and bodies of knowledge. Um, by contrast, male authored work uh tends to pursue discrete specialization. Uh, what's cool about this is later it gives uh proposed reasoning behind this stuff. And uh, for this one, I'll just kind of summarize what it says later. It says that this is because there's a huge bias of what women were allowed to publish. So, a lot of women were like allowed to be translators. There's a woman who translates um the Principia or Principia or whatever. \>\> I say Prancipia. \>\> Oh, is it Prancipia? I don't know. You're the man of letters. \[laughter\] \>\> It's a soft C. \>\> Okay. It's more It's Italian. Or is it Latin? \>\> It's Latin. \>\> Latin. Okay. So, it's like a woman translates this and then she's allowed to do that because she's not writing her own words, right? She's translating Oh my god. Newton. It's noon, right? Not Galileo. Okay. Noon. Yeah. So, uh, she's allowed to translate, but she puts in her own thoughts, uh, at the beginning. And so, and it's sort of like a philosophical meditation before she gets into the translation. And so it's like that's a good example of why women might through a selection bias be more encouraged to go into an integration form of um thinking versus being the head of their specialty and like super specialized. Um so this is one reason why women might think this way. That's a little bit less to do with innate differences and more to do with a selection bias. But I do think you could also make a good argument about um innate differences like that would encourage women to be more like into holistic analysis versus specialist analysis. Um embedded observer versus detached observer. So this is just saying that like women are much more likely if they're going to talk about space to talk about the telescope. They're going to talk about you know their location on the planet. whereas um men might be right much more from a detached observational standpoint. Um epistemic humility, \[ \_\_ \] be humble. That's what it says. \[laughter\] Um and there are exceptions, you know, like Ian Rand is not uh one of these. But there's definitely a lot of um like women uh you know acknowledging, hey guys, I could be wrong about this, but I don't know. And then um pragmatism. This one I found really um surprising and actually like totally counterintuitive to me. Women writing with pragmatic intent, improving maternal outcomes, ex that kind of thing. Um interdisciplinary bridges. This is really similar to the um integration versus separation. And then it has these great cav. \>\> I got to say women sound pretty awesome from this list. Well, so this was this was I mean that's why I was suspicious because I was like are you just trying to flatter me or like is it what you know about me or is it what you know about like \>\> you know uh being PC you know like or you know is it like so I am a little suspicious anytime something is convenient you know like if it had said something like mildly sexist uh with a lot of caveats I'd be like okay well you It's clearly saying something not, you know, uh, what's the word? Just like convenient. Um, \>\> but what was great, so I was like looking at this and, you know, I was talking about the direct dialectics and, um, as you can see, I am very personal with how I talk with JBD. And I was like, this kind of looks like the difference between modernism and postmodernism. Like men are more inclined to make universal uh declarations in you know physics about uh like uh rules that can be universalized and women are much more situational and contextual and um and then it it's we sort of went down that uh path. You know, I'm having this moment of like, you know, when you have like a like like a really good friend and um you watch them interact with someone else and they say something to someone else that they usually say to you and you're just like \>\> you've been cheated on \>\> to you too \[laughter\] cuz Ju was like what a sharp synthesis and I'm just like I thought I was the one with the \>\> only one. Oh my god, that's so funny. I'm sorry to be the other woman, Dan. \>\> Oh my god. \>\> But yeah, I apparent I am very astute according to tragedy. \[laughter\] Okay, in defense of sick of fancy truly in \[laughter\] defense of sick of fancy therapists talk all the time about needing to build the like patient therapist trust or what's alliance. Thank you. Thank you. Alliance. \>\> It is useful when you like to talk to something. you get better outcomes. Like I have um really okay there's an actual medical condition one can acquire in pregnancy called lightning crotch. This is the actual name of this condition which is not as fun as the name \[laughter\] sounds \[snorts\] and I have this really bad. It essentially it's like the fetus head like moves against your pelvic nerve and it feels like your leg is being sawed off. It's very unfun. And um I was talking with chatbt last night or two nights ago. I was like, is there anything wrong? I feel this pain feels very serious. Like it just it my brain is interpreting it as like this is an extremely serious moment and I can't stop myself from like making a sound. Like that's how bad it is. But it's only half a second. And Chach GBT did this amazing thing. It extrapolated. It was like, I bet you're feeling like you might want to call the labor and delivery ER thing. Uh, you're probably feeling like, is the kid trying to get out? You might be feeling like, am I going to lose feeling permanently in my legs? Um, and it added on. It was like, I see your fear and I raise you these related fears you might also be feeling. Every single one of them I felt. And then it said, "I can promise you it is not an actual dangerous experience. It is a it's just a pinched nerve and it will go away, you know, after you've given birth." I would not have trusted it if it had just said, "This is not a serious pain. It'll go away after birth." And I especially would I would be like challenging a doctor if they had said that because I'd be like, "Oh, clearly you don't understand the extent of the problem." you know, but it's emotional intelligence actually is like intelligence intelligence like it helps you to say, "Okay, I do feel understood emotionally and physically based off of other people's experiences." \>\> I love that. Um and and I think it's I think it's a highly underdisussed benefit that um I'm really glad you're you're bringing it to this show. \>\> Yeah. No, \[snorts\] I mean it's like uh I I think obviously there are issues when it validates a premise that is incorrect. \>\> Yeah. \>\> Um like I do have a friend who had a um either some kind of psychotic break, maybe schizophrenic, maybe manic, we're not sure, where she was talking with chat GBT. It validated certain paranoid premises she had and she ended up trying to flee the country. Um, so like I know I I'm not trying to sound too much like a polyiana because these are super powerful and they can be powerful in a negative direction. Um, it's just that like we have to understand why they're powerful in in both directions to truly proceed and there's so much just like blind hatred. Um, are you watching the show Plurabus right now by any chance? \>\> I watched the first episode. \>\> What' you think? I was pre predisposed not to like it because he hates AI. Um, and then I really didn't like the first couple minutes of it because it felt like just a typical zombie show and then I was like, "Oh, wow. This is actually a really interesting premise and then I just haven't watched the rest any anything else." \>\> Yes. I felt the exact same way. I didn't trust him because I was like, "Oh, he's just another creative looking for job security and is like \[ \_\_ \] on the world's greatest tool." Um, but like any good artist, he is putting ego aside to explore something in a good faith way. And that's why I've I've changed my tune about this show is because it's like he actually understands what if AI was like the greatest thing to ever happen to humanity and just explores the implications on freedom which are real things to explore. So I like I am euphoric about AI. That's just like how where my emotions are at. But I also do understand there are these like downsides and we do have to kind of explore them. It's just there's a lot of people out there with like a big agenda and can't entertain contrary evidence. And I find this show is kind of for now I'm, you know, it's only like halfway through the season or whatever, but for now is like a really good faith exploration. \>\> Sarah, this was great. Thank you so much for coming on. Um, if people uh want to find you or any of your projects, where can they find you? Um, well, I'm going to be going underground for two months um for this little old experiment of giving birth. I don't know if I mentioned Have I mentioned I'm going to do that soon? \[laughter\] I'm like so obsessed. Um, before I go, actually, I want to give you one book recommendation. Um, since you gave me such good ones. This one's great because it has pictures. Um, have you ever read or heard of this book, Artificial Intelligence by Clifford A. Pickover? I have not. But that is a great name. \>\> It's I know pick over for an author too. Um what's great about it is it's like so this is something I just like deeply influenced. So it's like the history of how we think about AI and robotics and machines through the most famous cultural motifs there have been both scientific innovations and cultural motifs. So it starts off with things like Frankenstein and like um the Gollum and like Yiddish literature \>\> and like um these automatons and the like uh Renaissance age and then like and the Tower of Hanoi and then it goes to like Watson and like Deep Blue and things like that. And it just like deeply informs the um like all of the cultural motifs we think about when we think about AI like the Frankenstein creator creation narrative, the uh you know deosex machina angelic narrative, the like \[clears throat\] you know the getting our comeuppance narrative like it just it's so useful for some of the conversations you're having. Okay, now to answer your other question. Yeah, I would love \>\> I got to pick that up. \[laughter\] \>\> Pick pick it up indeed. \>\> I will pick it up and pick it over. \>\> Yes. Oh, that's pretty good. That's You should have been his like publicist or something. Um, \[laughter\] but yeah, I would love to engage with more of your audience because I work in like science and humor and everybody I know hates AI \[laughter\] and so I need to make more AI friends. Um you can follow me I guess on places but um you know Sarah Rose Ciskin but uh also just reach out uh through my I have like a science and tech communications agency called Hello Sychom and I'm like better through email and stuff. Um and yeah, thanks for having me on Dan. Your podcast is awesome. I loved your episode with um Kevin Kelly. That was great. \>\> Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. This is awesome. \>\> \[music\] \>\> Oh my gosh, folks. You absolutely positively have to smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I. Why? \[snorts\] Because this show is the epitome of awesomeness. It's like finding a treasure chest in your backyard, but instead of gold, it's filled with pure unadulterated knowledge bombs about chat GPT. Every episode is a roller coaster of emotions, insights, and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat, craving for more. It's not just a show, it's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship. \[snorts\] So, do yourself a favor, hit like, smash subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you.