An episode of AI & I interviewing Naveen Naidu, the sole engineer behind Monologue, an AI voice dictation app that found product-market fit backwards: it built a following of thousands of users during its incubation at Every, before launch and with barely a landing page, with many users switching from venture-backed competitors. The conversation covers the false starts and side projects that taught Naveen to ship fast, dogfooding and the value of harsh product feedback, why Every built in a crowded category, and the AI coding tools that let one developer do the work of a team. Since launch, the app has averaged 1 million words transcribed weekly. # Channel Identity Observations ## Show Name and Host - The video ends with an explicit subscribe pitch naming the show: **"AI and I"**, hosted by **Dan Shipper**: > "You absolutely positively have to smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I... It's not just a show, it's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship." - Dan self-identifies as the interviewer and references his tenure: "just in the content mines for... five and a half years." ## Explicit Self-Description (Creator Claims) - The channel covers **AI-assisted product building and AI developer workflows**. The host states: "if you really want to understand what is possible if you use AI tools, well, this is the episode to watch." - Claimed track record of guests/topics: Naveen is described as building "one of the fastest growing and stickiest AI products we've ever built." - The host references prior episodes, indicating an established interview series: "We've never actually shown Codex on this show... we had the guy who launched it inside of OpenAI on the show for the launch." ## Organizational Affiliation - The channel is closely tied to **Every**, a media/software company. Evidence: - "I brought Naveen onto the show along with Every COO Brandon Gell." - Products discussed (Monologue, TLDRr, Chyros, Kora) are framed as "products... we've incubated inside of Every." - Dan describes the Every bundle: "with Every you pay one price you get access to all the writing that we do and all the software that we make." ## Intended Audience - **Solo developers, indie hackers, and AI-curious builders**: Naveen addresses them directly — "If anyone out there who is like looking to start or create a startup or create a product... just keep on building." - **Every subscribers/readers**: Dan notes "people subscribe to Every because they want to be super up to speed on AI." ## Claimed Scope - In-depth technical interviews covering AI coding tools (Windsurf, Claude Code, Codex, GPT-5, Opus 4.5, O-series models), product strategy, revenue metrics, and solo-founder case studies. - Sponsored content is present (Amazon Alexa Plus ad read), indicating commercial sponsorship. ## Observable Presentation Patterns (Demonstrated, Not Claimed) - **Live screen-share demos** are a format staple (Monologue demo, commit history walkthrough, usage analytics graphs, Codex task list). - **Concrete metrics shared openly**: "a thousand daily active users and $2,000 in MRR before it even launched." - **Multi-guest conversations** with internal colleagues (EIR Naveen Naidu, COO Brandon Gell). - A humorous, hyperbolic outro personality delivers the subscribe CTA, contrasting with the technical depth of the interview body. # Delivery Observation: "One Developer Got Thousands of Users Before His AI App Launched" ## Format Overview This is a **three-person conversational podcast** with distinct, observable delivery roles: - **Host (Dan)**: structured interviewer, energetic framing, enthusiastic interjections - **Guest (Naveen)**: narrative storyteller with a non-linear, qualifier-heavy speaking style - **Guest (Brandon)**: brief interjections, strategic/business commentary, echoes others' phrasing --- ## Tone ### Enthusiastic and Promotional (Host) The host's delivery is consistently high-energy and superlative-heavy, especially in the intro and outro: > "Naveen is incredible. And if you really want to understand what is possible if you use AI tools, well, this is the episode to watch." > "You're an absolute craftsman, Naveen. It's a it's a beautiful product." ### Earnest and Self-Revealing (Naveen) Naveen speaks candidly about failures and emotions: > "I'm really like excited, nervous, everything is happening at the same time." > "I didn't even talk to anyone about that because I I'm like really sh ashamed that I built that" --- ## Vocabulary and Recurring Phrases ### "Dream" language (repeated across speakers) A notable echo pattern — Brandon picks up Naveen's phrase immediately: - Naveen: > "just like dream come true here for me" and > "I think dream team for me" - Brandon: > "Dream come true. Uh with the dream team. Building dream products." **Uncertainty note:** This echo appears in one exchange only; it may be playful mirroring rather than a stable habit. ### Repeated filler pattern: "like" + "you know" Naveen's most frequent verbal tics, appearing dozens of times: > "it just like feels I'm first of all like really grateful just to like you know work with every" > "so I just kept on like building kept on adding features" This is a **stable pattern** across the entire transcript, densest in Naveen's long narrative turns. ### Superlatives and intensifiers (Host) The host habitually escalates with "really," "incredibly," and "so": > "an incredibly polished, incredibly sticky and compelling AI app" > "it's one of the fastest growing and stickiest AI products we've ever built" ### AI-product vocabulary All speakers share a vocabulary of shipping and experimentation: **"ship," "launch," "experiments," "build," "iterate," "vibe coded," "wrapper," "MRR/ARR," "zero to one," "dogfooding."** > "I'm going to release one experiment per week." > "we just vibe coded something" --- ## Teaching / Explanation Habits ### Live demo with narration Naveen's primary explanatory mode is **screen-share walkthroughs with step-by-step verbal labeling**: > "So let me share my screen. So first I'll talk about like writing an email and we can get into monologue visuals" > "So let me show you the codecs." He narrates what listeners can't see, prompted by the host: > "So describe what we're seeing on the commit history." > "Okay. So I started like my initial commit uh here is like April 15th." ### Host's "for people who are listening" accommodations A repeated host habit — describing visual content for the audio audience: > "So yeah, for people who are listening, like basically all he did was he talked into his computer mic" > "So for people who are listening basically Naveen is paging through his commit history." > "So, this is so for people who are listening, it literally just says monologue and then download" ### Lesson-extraction pattern The host repeatedly converts Naveen's anecdotes into generalized takeaways: > "I think there's this sort of feeling that oh you have to do startups in a certain way... But there's there's a lot to be said for like... learning to ship apps like while you still have a job" ### Analogies to explain tools Both host and Naveen explain AI coding tools through **persona analogies**: - Naveen: > "the code it generates feels like some senior engineer wrote" vs. Claude Code "kind of feels like some junior engineer wrote" - Host: > "I think of cloud code as being high in industriousness. So it's just going to like do a bunch of stuff" Naveen extends this into a team metaphor: > "I got my partner. I have Opus 4.5. Those are my like team members. I'm going to like, you know, delegate those tasks to them." --- ## Communication Patterns ### Naveen's chronological storytelling Naveen organizes long answers as **timelines with dated milestones**: > "maybe quick intro quick journey would be I quit my job uh around 2023" > "so I joined last year October... and I started working on TLDR" > "So I started it in April I believe... my initial commit uh here is like April 15th." ### Self-corrections and restarted sentences Naveen frequently restarts or corrects mid-sentence: > "It's a it's a growing week overw week... it's it's growing." > "Yeah. Yeah. Like that's a big I think uh like bulb turning on moment for me" ### Host's rapid affirmations The host affirms constantly during guest turns: **"I love that," "Yeah," "Totally," "Great. I love it,"** — a stable backchanneling pattern throughout. ### Sponsor transition and outro tonal shifts Two abrupt, distinct register changes bracket the episode: - Mid-episode ad read: > "Okay, quick break from the episode. Your home just became smart thanks to Alexa Plus..." - Parodic outro: > "You absolutely positively have to smash that like button... it's filled with pure unadulterated knowledge bombs" The outro's exaggerated tone contrasts sharply with the rest and reads as intentionally comedic, though intent is not directly observable. --- ## Stable Patterns vs. Isolated Moments | Pattern | Evidence strength | |---|---| | "like"/"you know" fillers (Naveen) | **Strong** — pervasive throughout | | Superlative framing (Host) | **Strong** — intro, mid, and closing | | "For people who are listening" (Host) | **Moderate** — recurs 3+ times | | Demo-driven explanation (Naveen) | **Moderate** — multiple screen shares | | "Dream team" echo | **Weak/isolated** — single exchange | | Persona analogies for AI tools | **Moderate** — clusters in tooling discussion | --- ## Uncertainty Notes - Speaker attribution is sometimes ambiguous in the transcript (missing `>>` markers), so a few quotes could belong to either host or Brandon; quotes above were chosen where attribution is reasonably clear from context. - Emotional delivery (e.g., nervousness, gratitude) is reported only as **spoken content**, not vocal tone — the transcript does not encode prosody. # Position Extraction: "One Developer Got Thousands of Users Before His AI App Launched" ## Speakers - **Dan Shipper** — host (transcript-identified) - **Naveen Naidu** — EIR at Every, GM/solo builder of Monologue - **Brandon Gell** — COO of Every ## Central Claims ### Product & Traction (Dan Shipper) - Monologue reached **1,000 daily active users** and **$2,000 MRR before launch** (intro says 2,000 MRR; later in episode Dan says "over $1,000 a month in recurring revenue" — figures as stated, discrepancy preserved). - Described as a "smart dictation app" that "types what you meant to say" — removing filler, applying self-corrections, inserting links from user instructions. - Naveen is a single engineer competing with companies that raised **$50M+** and have hundreds of employees; Every invested **less than $20,000**. ### Naveen's Journey (Naveen Naidu) - Quit his job in **2023** after the ChatGPT API release; negotiated a 3-day work week at full salary for 3 months first (he says he lacked conviction: "not really… I'm like really nervous"). - First app **Friday GPT** — first stranger paying money was "eye opening." - Built **Send Wisely** (email marketing tool) for ~6 months and **never released it** — calls it "the biggest mistake"; felt "ashamed." - Then forced himself to ship a Mac app in **one week** — a ChatGPT wrapper with select-text + hotkey prompts; reached **$5K/month** at peak "ChatGPT rapper season." Limitations: BYO-API-key, one-time $29–39 fee, niche. - Key mental shift: "I can just do things" — code small ideas, release, figure out the rest later. ### Every Timeline (Naveen Naidu, with Dan/Brandon interjections) - Joined Every **October last year**; worked **10 weeks** on **TLDRD** (synthetic podcasts from meetings) — "no one really used it"; he says it may have been "positioned the wrong way." Dan admits he and Brandon "had a big fight" over positioning and Brandon was correct. - After 2 weeks off, committed to **one experiment per week** (Brandon had a studio KPI for number of experiments). - **Chyros** (AI book reading): loved by audience but not commercially viable without in-app book sales. - **Grammarly alternative / Unwrite**: built iOS app (~200 users) and Mac app; usage "going in the right direction" but energy low — Brandon: "it didn't feel like a creative act." - Built **Jottle** (later Monologue) secretly for himself in **April**; v1.0.1 shipped **2 days after first commit** (April 15 → 17), including the **auto-enter** feature — a key differentiator. - Demoed at Friday show-and-tell; **Kieran** (GM of Kora) got excited; internal adoption spread. Kieran's blunt bug report — "immediate churn" — is cited by Dan and Naveen as valuable high-bar feedback. ### Strategy & Bundle Reasoning (Brandon Gell) - Initial hesitation: Every usually builds **net-new products**, not better versions of existing ones (competing with Whisper Flow / Superwhisper). - Unlock: Every subscribers should treat Every as their **last subscription outside ChatGPT/Claude**; good voice dictation belongs in the bundle. - Set three requirements for Monologue: **work really well**, look like **Teenage Engineering** (distinct aesthetic), and be **part of the Every bundle**. - On not worrying about copycats: focus on the Every audience first. - Dan: raising $50M "is not only unnecessary. It puts you in such a corner" — a multi-million-dollar outcome without heavy investment means building "from your front foot." - Team credit: **Lucas** (creative lead) came up with the "monophone" concept and the name Monologue; an external designer did app/landing page design; Jake Sheriff made the intro sound. ### Usage Growth (Naveen Naidu) - Tracked **words dictated** and **activations**; internal usage grew from ~130 users/day → ~7,000 usages/day, with no real landing page ("please don't use this because it's a public beta"). ### AI Tooling Positions (Naveen Naidu) - Used **Windsurf** early; moved to **Claude Code** (after Opus 4.1), then back to **Codex CLI** with GPT-5 high/medium. - Claim: Codex "works on what you asked… much more precise"; its code "feels like some senior engineer wrote" vs. Claude Code feeling "like some junior engineer wrote" — he acknowledges "I know it's a big statement." - **Dan's partial disagreement/complement**: Claude Code is "high in industriousness" — good for grinding through setup problems; GPT-5 good for precise changes. - Swift/technical work: o1 and o3-mini were "really really good" at Swift; Opus 4.5 also strong; GPT-5 high handled legacy CGEvent code with minimal documentation — the reason he didn't hire another developer. Dan claims this was formerly a "$200,000 problem." ### Goals (Naveen Naidu) - Internal goal: **$1M ARR** in one year (Dan notes Every as a whole just crossed $1M). - Near-term: release the **iOS app** (technically hard; "Apple doesn't make it easy… have to find loopholes") and reach **$10K MRR** by end of year. ## Preserved Tensions & Qualifications - MRR figure varies between "$2,000 MRR" (intro) and "over $1,000/month" (later) — both as stated. - Naveen repeatedly flags past mistakes (unreleased Send Wisely; repeating the "don't ship fast" mistake on TLDRD). - TLDRD's failure is contested in real time ("maybe we positioned it the wrong way… I don't want to accuse anybody"; Dan: "I don't [think] it would have worked either way"). - Naveen's "senior vs. junior engineer" comparison of code quality is explicitly self-qualified as a strong claim. - Note: mid-episode segment is an **Alexa Plus advertisement** read by Dan — promotional claims (intuitive, memory bank, actions on your behalf), not substantive episode positions. ## Non-Position Content - Closing "smash that like button" outro is promotional filler with no substantive claims. # Speaker Attribution & Provenance Record **Video:** *One Developer Got Thousands of Users Before His AI App Launched* (ID: `01a0f15a-da29-744f-a84c-a3acc99355ea`) ## Identified Speakers & Roles | Speaker | Role | Notes | |---|---|---| | **Dan Shipper** | Host / creator | Opens and closes the episode; CEO/co-founder context implied by hosting "AI and I"; also wrote the intro narration. | | **Naveen Naidu** | Guest — Entrepreneur-in-Residence (EIR) at Every, GM/solo builder of Monologue | First-time podcast guest; principal interviewee. | | **Brandon Gell** | Guest — COO of Every (formerly head of studio) | Second guest; discusses product strategy and design decisions. | | **Closing voice** | Unidentified narrator / outro voice | Delivers the exaggerated outro ("Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you"); speaker not identified in transcript. | ## Speaker Attribution Notes - **Intro segment** (before guests greeted): Dan Shipper speaking as host, introducing Naveen and Brandon. - **Anonymous chatter**: Some unmarked "> >" turns exist; attribution between Dan and Brandon is inferable from context but not always explicitly tagged in the transcript. - Third parties mentioned but **not speaking**: Kieran (GM of Kora), Lucas (creative lead, named Monologue and designed the "monophone"), Jake Sheriff (intro sound designer), Ed Edmar/Edmmer (spelling varies in transcript, EIR/user), Yashi, Nesh, Alex. ## Promotional Segments (Flagged) - **Sponsor break — Amazon Alexa Plus**: Mid-episode ad read ("quick break from the episode... Alexa Plus, the sponsor of this episode"), including host's personal anecdote and a call-to-action link in the description for early access. - **Channel promotion — outro**: Explicit like/subscribe appeal for "AI and I." - **Product promotion throughout**: The episode functions substantially as promotion for Every's product Monologue (launch timing noted: "we just launched it yesterday"; recorded September 10; product in public beta during recording). ## Referenced Sources & Third-Party Claims - **Products/tools named**: Monologue (Every), WhisperFlow/SuperWhisper (competitors), ChatGPT API, Claude Code (Opus 4.1, 4.5), OpenAI Codex (o1, o3, GPT-5 high/medium), Windsurf, Grammarly, kit.com, Friday GPT, Send Wisely, Screentime Plus, TLDDR, Chyros (AI book reading app), Kora. - **Third-party claims made by speakers** (unverified): - WhisperFlow "raised like $50 million." - A Brazilian company doing "$30 million ARR" as a "ChatGPT wrapper." - Every invested "less than $20,000" in Monologue. - Monologue pre-launch metrics: ~1,000 DAU, $1,000–2,000 MRR. - Naveen "top 0.0002% in India at math and science." - **Referenced metrics/anecdotes**: internal usage graphs (~7,000 usages/day), commit history (April 15 start, v1.0.1 on April 17), goal of $1M ARR in one year. ## Availability & Uncertainty - **Comment availability**: Not specified in transcript or metadata. - **Curated metadata**: None supplied beyond title and transcript. - **Ambiguities**: Names rendered inconsistently in transcript ("Ed Edmar"/"Edmmer," "Wind"/"Android"/"jaw"/"jottle" for the working name of Monologue); no timestamps provided. We built an AI app that had a thousand daily active users and 2,000 in MRR before it even launched. It's called Monologue and it's a texttospech app built by every entrepreneur and residents Naveen Naidu. Naveen built Monologue by himself end to end and we just launched it yesterday and it's one of the fastest growing and stickiest AI products we've ever built. Naveen and Monologue are so compelling because he's a single engineer competing with companies that have raised over $50 million and have hundreds of employees. And because of AI, he was able to build an incredibly polished, incredibly sticky and compelling AI app in just a few months. So I brought Naveen onto the show along with every COO Brandon Gell to talk about Monologue and talk about his journey because Monologue is something of an overnight success, but it took Naveen a long time to get there. So we talk about Naveen's entrepreneurial journey. We talk about how he joined Every and the time he spent iterating and shipping on new ideas before he found Monologue. And then we talk about the stack he uses to build and ship production grade apps by himself as a solo AI developer. Naveen is incredible. And if you really want to understand what is possible if you use AI tools, well, this is the episode to watch. Let's dive in. Naveen and Brandon, welcome to the show. Woo. \>\> Hey Dan. Hey Brandon. \>\> It's really good to have you. \>\> Yeah, I'm really happy. This is like first time recording a podcast for me and that to doing it like you know Dan which I've been following for past 5 years. So dream come true here for me. \>\> Oh that makes me so happy. I'm glad I'm glad this could be your first podcast um for for a lot of different reasons. Um and just so happy to have been working with you for for uh for the last year or so. So for people who don't know, you are an EIR at every and you are the GM of Monologue, which is a smart dictation app, which we are launching publicly very soon. Um, by the time this episode is out, I believe Monologue will be fully publicly released. It's currently in beta. And it's like it's so it's such a cool product. It's so well made. It's a product that everyone uses internally. You've done an incredible job with it. You've built it completely by yourself. And it's already over $1,000 a month in recurring revenue. 1,000 MR um without us even launching it. So it's just it's just growing. So it's so cool. How does that feel? It just like feels I'm first of all like really grateful just to like you know work with every because the thousand mr thing I think if you're normal indie hacker just reaching that milestone just takes you years upon years just here for me having this every audience having you and every uh team behind is just like I think dream team for me and obviously like product needs to work everything needs to like you need to solve proper problem there. But uh yeah, I I'm really like excited, nervous, everything is happening at the same time. \>\> I love that. And uh and we also have Brandon here. Brandon is now the COO of EveryY. Uh the last time you were on this podcast, you were um only the head of studio. How does it feel? \>\> Feels great. I'm I'm uh Yeah, I echoing what Naveen said. Dream come true. Uh with the dream team. \>\> I love it. \>\> Building dream products. So I want to start I want to talk about a little bit about your journey to um monologue. But before we do that, Naveen, can you just like demo us monologue so people who are listening and watching can get a sense for like the thing that you built? \>\> Yes, let me share my screen. So first I'll talk about like writing an email and we can get into monologue visuals and other stuff as well. So let's say I want to write an email to Kiran. Kieran is a GM of Kora and he's a wind user of Monologue. So I'm uh like monologue sits on your laptop uh like on your screen here and I'm using my hotkey which is right side option and I'm doubletapping it which is going to be hands-free mode. Hey Kiran, how is it going? Can we meet up tomorrow around 8:00 a.m. Uh actually make it 9:00 a.m. And uh if that doesn't work maybe you can check my availability here. Thank you Navin. So I just tapped uh right side option key again and here the cool thing is the Kiran name like it understands I'm talking to Kiran it it's good and then here it fixed I mentioned about saying 8:00 a.m. but I later selfcorrected and made it 9:00 a.m. And then here there's something weird happening like how did this link got attached here. So that is because in monologue uh we have instructions where here I mentioned my calendar schedule link. So it it just understands you really well. So you can just like write with zero edits. So this is just one of the examples but you can take this add to when you're talking to LLMs when you're talking to other uh use cases as well. \>\> Yeah it's really cool. So yeah, for people who are listening, like basically all he did was he talked into his computer mic and what Monologue did did is it transcribed it into a really well- formatted email that included his calendar link and took out like ums and o's and self-corrected certain things that that he corrected. Um and it has like it's honestly become the default way that pretty much all of us do work at every um very quickly which is really cool. It's it's similar in a lot of ways to like um you know, Whisper Flow or Super Whisper, which is something we can talk about um uh as part of this. I think like the thing that the way that we've been talking about it, which I really love, is um it uh it types what you meant to say and um that whole thing has been like really really cool. Um what I want to what I want to ask though is like you have this really polished product. It's a it's it's growing week overw week. People are using it all the time. Like I think there's someone who used it like over a thousand times last week or something like that. Like it's it's pretty crazy how good it is. Um but you are actually in the even even though you were working with us for a while. You were in the wilderness for a long time. Um so like you became an EIR we I think we had our first conversation you said like about a year ago almost exactly a year ago and it took you from then until now to like find this and have it be like ready to launch. So what was that like? like what was it like coming into every and what was it like kind of like going through the wilderness and how did you get here? \>\> So yeah, it took me some time to get here. Uh maybe quick intro quick journey would be I quit my job uh around 2023 uh right after I think charge GPT API got released. \>\> Good time to quit your job. \>\> Yeah. So I like there's this uh you know pending loom or like something big is happening in the industry kind of a feeling. You can see chargyp I think got released in December 2022 and they released an API in 20 uh March 2023. I like vividly remember that because that's like one of the pivotal moments for me. Uh so yeah like I quit my job. \>\> How did you get the conviction to quit your job in that moment? Uh not really. So what happened is in my previous company I didn't get the conviction. I'm like really nervous like I didn't know what I was doing. So in my pre like I had this deal with my boss previous boss saying okay I'm going to work 3 days a week with you and rest of the four days let me figure out what I want to do with my life or like what I want to do next. And he's like more than happy to give me like he's paying me full-time salary. He paid me full-time salary during that 3 months period but I still only worked for 3 days and rest of the four days I just like kept on like you know what to do and only then I think charge GP API got released right so I started hacking products around the same time I released this uh app called Friday GPT so it like that's my first time hitting some some random stranger giving me money to buy an app so that made a big difference and I'm like okay I had to do this. Uh \>\> how did that feel? \>\> That is like you know I never met that guy. I don't even know who he is right now. But that's a really great feeling that okay I can earn something of my own just from this uh pure like the idea is just in my mind I thought about that I made it executed and someone paid for it. That's a like eye opening for me and uh I thought okay I have to do this full-time right? Uh so I just quit and then started my own company came back to India actually before I used to live in Japan. So I like made pretty big different changes around 2023 and uh yeah after that I started my company and I started working on uh multiple bunch of products and one of the biggest mistakes I made during that time is I just worked on one product for 6 months or something. I didn't even release. So, it's just like sitting on my laptop. So, that's called Send Wisely. And uh like \>\> what product was it again? \>\> It's a email marketing uh tool like similar to kit.com. \>\> Okay. This is like the cardinal. I've never even seen this product that you built. I didn't even talk to anyone about that because I I'm like really sh ashamed that I built that in my like you know just on my sitting every day sitting going to coffee shop or something building that and I never showed anyone I did I didn't do anything at all with that uh I just like kept on building kept on adding features and uh that made me like you know technically I'm like able to just play around with tech stuff but never really actually you went into business. Okay, I have to sell it. I have to market this. I never thought about all that stuff. But later on, okay, whatever is done is done. Let me just start again from scratch. So, I again went back uh to the drawing board. I made a Mac app. And here, this time I had a goal. I have to release this Mac app in one week. So, I built it. I posted it on Reddit. uh and then lot of people wanted have the similar kind of problem and then they also wanted it. It's kind of like wrapper chach rapper but the thing is you can select a test uh text and hit a hotkey and you can run a prompt on top of it. So that's just idea is very simple. So like a lot of people are going back and forth in charging doing the same thing right maybe fix grammar or some other thing. the selected text. \>\> It's the funny thing is that's such a good idea, you know, like that that idea there are I mean Ed Edmar a different you know EIR you know every team member messaged me yesterday saying that there's a company that like wants to talk to us. It's a they do $30 million out of Brazil and it's just a chatbt rapper. You can ask the same exact questions that you asked chatbt but also in this tool and they do 30 million AR. So that idea very well could have been your idea like what what and I know it I know people bought it. So what what what caused you to sort of lose steam on it? \>\> Yeah. So it it it did like really great job for me like at least with the confidence at one point I even reached 5k per month. I'm like that that like Mac app is making 5K. That's like due peak charg like you know rapper season. So I'm making ton of money and uh getting good eyeballs on it. Uh but one mistake I made is user have to bring their own API key for it. So it's a very niche product and it's a onetime fee. So if user have to pay at that time $39 or $29, I don't exactly remember. So that's a niche product and kind of like after that I don't know what to do. So I started okay let me build another Mac app so that I can bring in more revenue. So I built another Mac app called uh screen time plus and then slowly like I started hacking lot of side projects and stuff but nothing really like okay this is going to be my next 5 years. It's just I'm making some random apps and the only thing that I got really good at or compounding wise is I'm able to build apps really fast and then only build that one single core feature and like post it on Reddit, post it on X, get eyeballs, convert them to sales. But I don't really have any solid business plan or okay, how can I take this to next level and that's when I met you guys like and joined as ER. M that's really interesting. You're saying so many things that feel very familiar from my own journey and and I'm just like this is why I love working with you. Like this is why you're awesome. Um like just things that like lessons that I learned too along the way. Like um for example, one of the things you said is that you just negotiated with your with your boss to like take four day like only work three days a week rather than like having to quit your job all at once. Like I think there's this sort of feeling that oh you have to do startups in a certain way and you have to be all in from the very beginning. But there's there's a lot to be said for like stepping like putting your toe in the water and like you know shipping learning to ship apps like while you still have a job so you have more more runway and less pressure. Another thing you said that I that I really resonate with is um well one is working on something for like a long period of time and then not shipping it and then realizing that was bad and then really forcing yourself to be like okay I'm going to ship every I'm going to ship something in one week. I'm going to like build all these different apps. And I think that's a really good part of the of the learning experience is just like go from nothing to an app that you're trying to sell um instead of like being off in your cave like hacking away on something that like no one no one actually wants. Um yeah. So I I definitely vibe with that. \>\> Yeah. Like that's a big I think uh like bulb turning on moment for me which is oh I can just do things like just I have a small idea just code it up release it doesn't have to be like oh a lot of features have to be there or building has to be there I just figured it on the way so like that's a big I think mental shift for me so that during that time \>\> I I was I was thinking about how Um, I wonder if people when they work on something that's like they haven't shared with anybody. A lot of times it's for a product that they themselves can't immediately use and don't actually like immediately use themselves versus if it's something that they actually use themselves, they're excited to share it with people. \>\> Yeah. \>\> Um, and that's kind kind of a good indicator and and it's honestly the way that we build products is we won't build anything that we don't use all the time. just sort of like a rule, an unwritten rule that we now have. \>\> Um because it it'll never it'll never launch, I guess, is what we're learning. \>\> Yeah. And it's the best way to um know that the product you're building is good cuz like we just if we use it and then we get the rest of the team to use it, we're pretty sure that the audience is going to like it. And that's just a really cool loop. \>\> And I think we're in this um we're in this unique time where the game board has been reset because of AI. So there's all these new opportunities to do new stuff that um you can just look for problems that you have personally and if you have that problem there's a good chance that other people have it and that it hasn't been solved yet which is really really cool. That's kind of a good segue kind of a good segue to like how monologue came about too because my Naveen correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is we were buil we were launching um TLDDR no okay let me give give you a quick timeline maybe yeah just to refresh uh so I joined last year October so that's the last quarter of last year and I started working on TLDR it's kind of like synthetic podcast generation from for from your meetings, Slack, Discord. It just turns everything and converts into a beautiful like podcast that you can listen. \>\> Uh TLDDR, those were the days. \>\> Y I still get I still get pitches for people to do that. I'm like, we tried it, bro. Doesn't work. \>\> We launched it like right before Christmas on this like crazy chaotic schedule where we launched like four things in a row. \>\> Actually, it did fairly well, but there was I don't know. It was Yeah. Anyway, interesting. \>\> Yeah, maybe we positioned it the wrong way. I don't want to accuse anybody of positioning it the wrong way, but \>\> me and Brandon had a big fight before it came out and uh he was I'll say for the record, he was correct um about how we should position it. I went a little galaxy brain, but anyway, \>\> I don't it would have worked either way. \>\> Yeah. \>\> So, for me, like from my side, what happened really is I think it didn't really sink well with our every every audience. No one to be honest I think I worked on that for 10 weeks internally no one really used it like no one is listening to those podcasts no one is reading those meeting notes and stuff so and even when we released it I think as a every uh like we have this every audience right so they also like okay this is cool but I'm not going to use this obvious like kind of a vibe we got \>\> so after that I took some time off like two weeks I didn't touch my laptop I'm like you know I continuously worked on 10 weeks for the on this Right. And I did the same mistake like I previously did one year ago which is just working on something which I didn't like put it out fast real fast. \>\> So coming back after the holidays I made myself okay I'm going to release one experiment per week. \>\> I even I remember Brandon having a KPI as well for that quarter where experiments from from studios like number of experiments from studios and that really helped me also. Uh okay, I'm not going to worry about creating products and stuff. I'm going to just think about creating as many experiments as possible. So after that, I did Chyros. I a lot of uh every audience might remember Chyros. They love it. \>\> People love that. Yeah. \>\> Yeah. So it's a AI book reading app and even before launching we got to know, oh this doesn't really have commercial success because uh you have to actually sell the books within the app to make any kind of money. if not, how are you going to make money? Like, people are not going to pay you $20 on top of already buying books. Uh, so that didn't work out, but people loved it. People love the article. I still get like emails and messages saying they like it and they kind of like try to include that into their reading habits. Um, and after that, I started working on Grammarly alternative. That is because I'm like from India and uh, \>\> oh my god, I forgot all of you. You guys, you remembered it now. \>\> Oh yeah. Now, now I do. It's all kind of I I Yeah. I black that out from my brain. \>\> Yeah. So after that I did that experiment where uh you know I'm from India and my English is not that great uh when I'm writing. So I use Grammarly a lot but Grammarly is really slow. It's shitty to be honest. Someone has to make a better product here. So I asked around the team Kiran is paying for it. Yashi is paying for it. So I'm paying for it. Why not? why can't I take this up? So I took that up. Uh I actually first started with iOS app. So within one week I released the iOS app. We even emailed some of early adopters. We put up a form. It's going well. But the energy of that app like to be uh like overall usage is good. It's going in the right direction. It's just that energy around this idea is not that great because okay this is already like you're solving like 20 years old problem kind of you know uh thing people are not really excited to \>\> like your energy or the or users energy which one \>\> everyone's energy I would say it didn't feel like a creative act it just felt like we were like solving very specific problems \>\> I w I wasn't sure how we were going to like make something mind-blowing there Yeah. So that's the same thing. \>\> But I remember thinking this is such a good idea. \>\> Yeah. I we released a iOS app. I think we at one point we got like to around 200 users using it using the keyboard actually changing their own default keyboard and we also have a Mac app where it highlights the corrections and you can correct it. So technically we invested a lot of stuff in there but it just didn't feel like people are like adopting it that far that high. Yeah. So during during that time uh so what happened is uh uh I'm like pretty low to I'm like not motivated to work on I I just want some some new fresh idea. So on the side, I didn't tell anyone on the site. I just made the jaw like at that time that's a working name of monologue. Uh so I just made that app for myself and uh uh I just started using it. \>\> Why did you make it? Like what like what was the thing where you're like oh I just want to like mess around with this. I don't want will tell anyone but this is kind of fun. \>\> Yeah. Like when I joined program like uh with every one of the ideas is whisper flow alternative but better. Like that's one of the things it's on my like \>\> that was on the list. \>\> Too bad you didn't put that higher on on the list. \>\> I don't think I don't think we were ready for it. I I have comments on this but you keep going with with the timeline. \>\> Yeah. Yeah. So what happened is uh yeah I have that idea. It's like itching me you know. And other thing Edmmer one uh one of the users of Android and he is also E. Uh so he mentioned I want this voice to text in keyboard can you do that and I got the similar kind of request from other users and I also want that and other thing is uh the one of the previous apps I talked about Friday GPT it has that feature but I already know uh users are actually like using voice and how they are like it's helping them a lot so I talked with couple of users and the thing is it's not great product like 2 years ago that I built it's not really great product. Uh so I just okay let me make a really great product with all the things I learned because now I feel like I'm really confident with my technical skills product skills. So I just like throw thrown away everything and just started the code from scratch. I am like just looking at my commit history. Uh are you interested in look at commit history? \>\> Sure. \>\> Yeah absolutely. \>\> Okay let me \>\> Okay, quick break from the episode. Your home just became smart thanks to Alexa Plus, the sponsor of this episode. Amazon just released Alexa Plus, an Alexa with a state-of-the-art AI architecture. It's a state-of-the-art language model packed into an Alexa, so it can access thousands of services and devices. I have one. Amazon was kind enough to ship me one. And here are a couple things you'll see if you start using Alexa Plus. First of all, it's really intuitive to talk to. It feels a lot more like talking to a Frontier language model than the old robotic Alexa or series. You can talk to Alexa Plus like a real person, it'll keep track of your train of thought. And it even personalizes itself to you. It has a memory bank. So, if you tell it once that you want to try the new Thai place downtown, for example, in Brooklyn, one of my favorite Thai places is called Souk. It will remember that next time you're looking to book a dinner reservation. And by the way, you can actually use it to do that. So, one of the cool things about Alexa Plus is it can take action on your behalf. So, you can ask it to book a reservation for that Thai restaurant on Open Table. You can also ask it for music recommendations or to help plan your day and add stuff to your calendar. It even has smart home features, so you can ask it to dim your lights or turn on the heat without getting out of bed. Alexa Plus early access is rolling out now and it's free to use it during the early access phase. If you want to try it, you can use the link in the description to request early access. And now back to the episode. So officially it's called like now one lock Mac app but I started it in April I believe. \>\> So for people who are listening basically Naveen is paging through his commit history. And what's really interesting about this is okay so you started working on this app in April. It's now September, \>\> so it really has not been a long time. And you are one person. And this is like a beautiful production ready app that you've done everything for that like hundreds or maybe thousands of people are using every day. It's it's pretty cool. \>\> Yeah. So I think it it's just the compounding, right? If anyone out there who is like looking to like start or create a startup or create a product and stuff, one thing I would say is just keep on building, keep on like creating as many experiments as possible because once you hit that one great idea, you can just release it in two days. You can see the commit history, right? \>\> So describe what we're seeing on the commit history. \>\> Okay. So I started like my initial commit uh here is like April 15th. \>\> Mhm. And I did like bunch of changes, bunch of things. And on April 17th, I have v 1.0.1. \>\> Wow. \>\> So in 2 days I released it. Uh so yeah. \>\> And there's something that I just saw that's interesting in there. uh you have a commit in there for auto enter which I I think is like one of people's favorite features of monologue where you can you can speak into monologue and it automatically will um process what you say, fix it and then automatically paste it and click enter which if you are a developer allows you to really stay in flow because you can just speak and you don't need to like use your keyboard at all. I use it for on Discord. I use it in messages. I use it in warp. Um, and that was I think I saw that on the 11th or was that the 17th that you committed that? \>\> Yeah, 17th. \>\> Yeah. \>\> Okay. So, it's it's like it's one of the most important differentiating features and it's one of the first things you built and it to me it just is a nice it just tells me, okay, you just need like one killer feature to really convince yourself and see if people really want to use what you're building. And then a lot of the work that you've done is like polish and fixing bugs and adding things here or there, but like a lot of the product was there the day that you launched it. So you can have like a simple product that works super well, but that last 20% is like so hard. \>\> Yeah. 100%. So at that time what I'm doing is on 15th I built that and I started using jaw at that time to build j you know I've been dog footing uh like the auto enter thing came because ah why am I like always hitting enter why can't like jottle do that for me so I just added that uh so kind of like all the features that first two days that you see is uh around that \>\> that's the beautiful thing about building for yourself is you know that that's what you want and also it's the beautiful thing about building inside of a company like Every because you've just been like flooded with people saying like I need this or this isn't working or whatever and so you have this like really really high fidelity feedback loop all the time of good feedback. \>\> Yes 100%. So after that what happened like today's I pushed it on 18th we have the show and tell on Fridays. So I think that's one of the like fun meetings we usually like we have ton of high uh signal feedback. We get high signal feedback there. So I did the demo of Android. I'm like pretty you know like not that feeling great about the progress I'm making with Android. Then at the end like maybe 5 minutes or 10 minutes remaining I demoed this app but like I've been like working past 2 days on this and like Kieran got really excited about this. I I don't remember like everyone else like to I just remember Kieran's reaction because Kieran also has his own Python script like some crappy version of it. He mentioned he uses his local whisper thing. So and Kieran got excited. I got excited. So I just released the app to Kieran like I think right there I just sent him the build directly and the next feature he asked is I need local whisper models because he likes local whisper models. So I just added that feature for K and slowly Nesh started using Alex started using Branded like that everyone started using everyone started giving me feedback and then it just like like yeah off to races that's it. Yeah, this was really exciting time and I'm laughing to myself because I remember I remember feeling I'm going to go back to sort of like why we felt like we're going to do this and this is like an easy decision, but I wanted to like a quick anecdote. I remember we like created a Discord channel and um and Kieran hit a bug where like it wasn't working for him and he sent you a message that I honestly will never forget. He said immediate churn with a screenshot and \>\> classic Kieran. \>\> Yeah. Like I love it. He's like he pushes you really hard. He just he said immediate churn and I just looked at that and I was like holy he's right. This is immediate turn. \>\> And just saying it so bluntly I think um and that's sort of you know a version of the feedback that you get from everybody here I think has made it like a pretty bulletproof product. But yeah, I'll never forget immediate churn. \>\> That's funny. \>\> I want on a hat. \>\> Yeah, go for it. I mean, \>\> dude, I take Kan's like feedback real seriously because I think he's like uh the top 1% 10% users where, you know, if they hit a bug, you immediately turn. If I keep Kieran happy, I'm going to keep like ton of people happy. \>\> I just I just submitted a PR on Kora, which he denied. So, like I know the the bar the bar for Kieran is pretty high. He was like, "This is vibe coded." I was like, "You're right. It is." Um, \>\> which is crazy cuz he's the number one vibe coder. He's just like he's he's wielded it so well that now he thinks he's the one coding. \>\> Um, I I think this is an interesting product for me too because it is the first product that we've incubated inside of every that I have not either built the first version of or been like intimately involved in the building of. It was the first product where like I was just off doing other stuff and I just saw a bunch of people talking on Discord about this. At the time it was called Jottle and then we renamed it Monologue. Um and I was like I guess I'll try it and I tried it and I was like whoa this is good and that was like the coolest that is the coolest feeling ever I have to say to just feel like we're making awesome stuff and I just like had nothing to do with it. Um so it was it was just really fun to watch that happen. I want to talk real quick about like the um like the strategy behind it. So there was there was obviously like Naveen you built the first version of it and I remember in that show and tell I was I had sort of an unlock and was like we need to do this but the reason that I felt like we needed to do it even though it felt kind of wrong because like there were other companies that were already existed that were doing this and typically all the products that we built have been like net new products. It was very hard to come o to get over the idea that we weren't going to build something new. We were just going to try to take in a concept that already existed and make it better. But the reason that like I got so comfortable with that and actually reached out to Dan and was like, "Dude, we have to do this immediately." And you were like maybe and then you used it and you were like, "I'm totally in." was I realized that people subscribe to every because they want it to be the last they want to be super up to speed on on AI and they want to use our individual products but what we want for them is that it's their last subscription that they have outside of a chat GPT or cloud. So they have a chatbt subscription and an every subscription and I realized voice very very good voice dictation is one of the main tools that people are using and we're actually doing sub subscribers a disservice if we don't include this as a part of their bundle. We just need to figure out a way to do it that feels right to us um and and sort of like levels up the whole industry. \>\> Yeah. Um, which you know, you started this in April. We're recording this September 10th. I think we've done that over the past many months. It's taken a long time to get it to be like really, really good. \>\> Yeah. I think that was my hesitation, too, is like um I wanted to only release this if we felt like it felt like an every product, like it felt like ours instead of just, you know, we just vibe coded something and it's like kind of a shitty thing. And I really do feel that way. Like you're you're an absolute craftsman, Naveen. It's a it's a beautiful product. \>\> Thank you. Really appreciate that. Uh so yeah, I to had that in mind like because when even when I presenting that I remember I know this is like already existing product like I'm just I just made it for myself like don't like you know be this is my baby don't be harsh kind of like when I'm presenting it. But uh once you know like Brandon talked about this like don't worry about like copycats like being that like you know uh because we have already ton of every audience if no one else is subscribing you're going to anyway get these every subscribers who are going to like use it. So just focus on every subscribers but don't worry too much about like external like you being competing with that initial period. So that actually made me a little bit, you know, okay, I can actually make this work because I can just focus on every audience. Let's try to like, you know, make a really good app. So that put me at ease because I don't want to like people to think like I'm just copying something. \>\> Totally. And this is the first time that I felt like the bundle strategy that we've been pushing for a long time, it's like starting to like really work. So for people who who don't know with every you pay one price you get access to the all the writing that we do and all the software that we make and um it makes so much more sense to build monologue in the context of a bundle because um you know when you're if you're comparing okay I can buy one app or I can buy a subscription and get like a bunch of apps plus like really good writing about AI it makes that \>\> the value \>\> that calculus yeah that calculus makes a lot makes a a lot more sense. And um it's just been it's been really interesting to watch that happen because it it I didn't even think that this we would be building something like monologue as part of this strategy but it just seems to work. \>\> Yeah. Yeah. And uh that strategy really helped the way monologue right now it is because uh what happened is April is done. Maybe I can show like initial periods because the uncertaintity. \>\> Yeah. Show show us the usage and \>\> yeah yeah so the usage here is that like I keep track of two things which is the number of words that are getting dictated and number of times the you know moonlog got activated. So initial time I I just walk you through that initial period right uh 17th 18th like April and then I gave access I I started adding like analytics the following week because people have been using it a lot internally and here you can see this is not my usage I removed my usage because I do bunch of testing right initial period so this is somewhat like we got 130 users per day slowly it start it went to 150 200 like 300 100 350 end of this. \>\> Yeah. \>\> This is the number of times that somebody clicked the button to start dictating. \>\> Yes. \>\> Okay, cool. And for people who are who are listening like Yeah, it's just a smoothly go it's a graph that is smoothly going up and this is a usage graph which is very hard to do. I mean obviously there's there's jag there's it's it's a little jagged for like weekends and stuff but I think it's really important to say um we we work on a lot of products we've all built a lot of products over our lives and uh seeing something that just like smoothly goes up in usage is ext is extremely rare. \>\> Yeah. Here you can see the week overw week graph like which is like uh initial week we got 230 but slowly end of May we are hitting around 1500 \>\> 1500 users per week \>\> uh usages per week yes \>\> usage okay got it got \>\> I think we are hitting around 27 18 like these are all internal users \>\> so 20 yeah this is all every internal if you want maybe we might have to blur out the emails here \>\> this is only to June right Yeah, show us the full graph. \>\> Full gaff. \>\> Okay, let me date. \>\> We might have to blur out the emails. \>\> Oh, wow. This is Look at this. \>\> This is even better. \>\> Yeah. Trying to be hitting 7,000 usages per day. \>\> Yeah. I mean, this is crazy. Like, it's per day. \>\> It's This isn't even linear. This This \>\> There's no landing page for this product. \>\> Yeah, there's no like Naveen, show us the landing page. the land. This is the land. \>\> So, this is so for people who are listening, it literally just says monologue and then download and then it says please don't use this because it's a public beta and it has a little made by every sticker at the bottom. So, yeah, that's that's crazy. And um it makes me very confident in this in this product \>\> and people are okay. So, and the other thing that's crazy too is um there are a bunch of competitors. A lot of them have raised millions of dollars. \>\> Like we have a competitor, Whisper Flow, that's raised like $50 million. \>\> We have invested in this product \>\> less than $20,000 and one person is building this product alone. \>\> We should talk like a little bit about like how we have supported you with a bunch of other like people to like really make this super artful. But um I just think that that's crazy and it's one of the it's one of the most um obvious proof points to me that we just live in a different world and raising $50 million to do something is not only unnecessary. \>\> It puts you in such a corner like like we have already built something that is successful period. \>\> Yeah. \>\> Because uh we can build really quick. Naveen's really talented and we haven't invested a stupid amount of money into it and it doesn't need to be a billion dollar outcome. It could be like I at this point this will be a multi-million dollar outcome and um and I feel like we have that in the bag and that's really special to like build from that place cuz you're building from your front foot instead of like trying to dig yourself out of a hole. \>\> Totally. It means we get to like make art which is worth talking about because this is a very very artful kind of like teenage engineering style product. \>\> Can you demo the the welcome screen? Do you have that set up? \>\> Yes. Uh \>\> I know Naveen is so proud of the the onboarding because he has a button that's easily accessible to reset the onboarding. \>\> I just want people to like Yeah. Ju just go through the onboarding again. So ju just to set some context around okay uh like what happened is you uh I think end of June Brandon and I like sat down at the in one of our calls and uh like okay this is working people are actually using it but UI looks like UX is like we are just like not happy with the way things are. So we immediately bought like Lucas so Lucas is our head of uh like creative lead. Yes. So I think having Lucas on a project like this just from start just I think made ton of ch like you know decisions uh whatever decisions that you are seeing within the product happen. So Lucas bought that Lucas energy every synergy into this uh monologue from like the start. That's why the way like it works it is working right now. So let me show you like quick uh things. up. \>\> I remember what when Naveen and I had this one-on-one, I said, "This app needs to do three things. It needs to work really well. It needs to look like Teenage Engineering or something like that. It needs to look really different." \>\> What's Teenage Engineering for people who don't know? \>\> Teenage Engineering is a hardware company that makes beautiful recording devices, music making devices, computer cases. Um, they just like have a very cool aesthetic. um it needs to look kind of like teenage engineering. It needs to look different and it needs to be a part of the every bundle and if we do those three things uh this product will work \>\> and that seems to be happening right now and and the way that you executed on the design side is just out of control to me. So 100 like this is one of our inspirations and Lucas like worked uh had gave us this monophone to we never thought of monophone at all like initially I remember uh Jotal being just a blob of like text like just radiating and like Lucas came up with this monophone idea where okay you have to feel like you're talking to something so that's why anyway let me show you uh like the onboarding Awesome. Yeah. So, this is the onboarding where you see the like sound and uh animation. Maybe Brandon can talk more about the sound and everything that we \>\> Yeah. I I just got to say I love it and like we just have so many people reach out being like that was awesome just from just downloading the app and starting it. Like I had someone who's has a fairly big Twitter audience that messaged me being like this is the first time I've gotten emotional using software in many years and I was like yeah we've done we did it we did it. I think I don't know we just had such a strong perspective of like we want the well we didn't even know Lucas actually came up with the idea the word for monophone. So he was like this is the monophone design was really special. We knew we wanted sound to be really cool. \>\> He also came up with the name monologue. \>\> Yeah, he did. \>\> He did come up with the name too. Yeah. Uh we wanted like this we wanted sounds to be a part of it. So we have like this really cool intro sound that my friend Jake Sheriff made. Um we brought in a designer to do the app design and the landing page design which is the first time we've ever done that. We've always done app and landing page design internally. This time we brought somebody else from the outside \>\> and he's great \>\> and he's amazing and like Lucas did creative direction, he did actual design and it was like a very special combination and then we brought in a guy to do animations. So it was just like also in the middle of this process I learned that Naveen is like top 0.00002% 0002% in India at math and science for you know whatever cohort you are of that test and uh uh and I I learned in this process he's also very good at managing other people \>\> which \>\> rare combination \>\> a very rare combination \>\> oh thank you I don't know what to say so I think it's just like I feel like I'm uh in a video game you know collecting all these skills so that I can build this monologue So I think in my previous job I was managing people. Uh so yeah I collected that skill and later like when I'm like it just like everything came together uh nicely here and yeah \>\> for people who are watching I think there's probably a lot of people who are like wow this is awesome. I want to I want to start doing this too. Can you tell us a little bit about like your workflow? Um what tools are you using? How are you using AI in your workflow? All that kind of stuff. Uh yes. So for the initial stages the 0ero to one it's really really important for you to just like keep it like just go one single feature and like use AI obviously and one of the uh key like uh things I used initially at that time I remember bins surf it just feels like ages ago. So I was using \>\> what is that again? Yeah, like I even like it feels like a year ago like when I've said windfur a lot at during that time and I think windsfur is one of the first ideas to introduce this agentic coding as well I remember so my codebase has been getting a lot so binsf and right now my text track looks cloud code a lot like most of the code that's in monologue is like done by cloud code. Uh, and then recently I've been using codecs a lot. So, let me show you like codeex uh where we \>\> Yeah, show us. Yeah, we've never actually shown codeex on this show. Um, except for the the we've shown we've shown the web version because we had uh the uh the guy who launched it inside of OpenAI on the show for the launch, but um we have not we've not gone there in a while. So, yeah, tell us about how you're using codecs. \>\> Yeah, let me show you the codecs. like I think around May time May 18th they released it and I'm initially got like some errors but 18th you can see how many tasks I'm like giving it to codeex basically like every day you have a task cuz you're just scrolling through a list of tasks for people who are listening and um yeah every day you have a little task you're kicking off of codeex or maybe looks like multiple tasks a day a lot there's a lot \>\> yeah like it all depends on my mood as well like uh if I'm in that mode of uh okay today I will be in a manager mode and let me just give bunch of tasks to all these AIS and uh like review it but if I'm in active development mode I'm going to just like use codeex uh let me bring \>\> but now it looks like you skipped a month so why did you not use it for a month \>\> uh CL code like that made a big difference for me I think one got released \>\> yeah I think what happened is uh I was using this with I don't remember the models to be like I think 01 O 03 \>\> 0 I think it's 03 it's a it's a fine-tuned 03 yeah \>\> yeah 03 yes I think during that time it was it's really great uh and after that opus 4.1 got released and I'm just like completely moved to cloud code and now I'm back to again codeex uh CLI let me so actually like yeah here you can see like I'm not uh you can see I'm using codeex actually like I today I just developed uh this like I'm working on this uh monologue speed test website and I just made a plan and uh within the plan yeah within the plan we have this phases phase one phase 2 phase three and I'm just uh uh implementing these phases phase three and phase three yeah so I'm just using codeex a lot with GPT5 uh high and medium is so public. \>\> Interesting. Yeah. Tell us about why like why why' you switch? Why do you think it's better? \>\> Uh one I think uh 4.1 it just like I got like uh with code cloud code it just says like you're absolutely correct absolutely right and it doesn't like push back on my like whenever I'm uh trying to you know get some proper feedback on my implementation. Here, for example, I actually used monologue to dump this. Here you can see like uh and it gave me \>\> and he's just highlighting a bunch of a bunch of text where he's asking questions about about his uh codebase. \>\> Yeah. And it gave me really great plan. Uh I think planning is really really good compared to cloud code. uh here what happens with uh yeah planning and even with the code one thing I observed is it's uh actually I have a video as well recorded where I compared clot code versus codec like not codeex but GP5 high or medium one thing I clearly observed is codeex works on what you asked it doesn't go and do some like its own creator \>\> it's much more precise \>\> yeah much more precise and the code it generates feels like some senior engineer wrote instead of cloud code. It kind of feels like some junior engineer wrote. I know it's a big statement but it just feels like with ton of uh comments with ton of like uh the logic it writes it's much more like uh not well thought out but if you look at codeex code Yeah. \>\> Yeah. I think you're right. Um it GBT5 code does feel like if I want a precise change and I want to be confident that it's doing the right thing, I can use GP5 and it'll do it well. Um and so so it's got that precision thing. I think of cloud code as being high in industriousness. So it's just going to like do a bunch of stuff which is actually helpful in certain circumstances. So, like for example, um I wanted to commit some code to Kora. Um and so I needed to get my my repo running locally and cloud code is just really good for that because it's just going to keep banging its head against the wall until it figures it out. It's very industrious and GPD5 will be like, well, I can't do this because I'm, you know, whatever. There's like 15 precise things that that it thinks are wrong, you know, and then you have to go through it each one with it. And um yeah, so I've been I've been liking I've been liking uh Codeex as well. I'm curious um I've heard that a lot of these models are not that good at writing swift. So what has been your experience? \>\> One uh even during unwrite development which is the Grammarly alternative that I was working on it's technically complex meaning you have to show this red squiggly lines on top of any app. So that's a very highly technical ch like you can't just use some external library to build that out. So I during that time I was using 01 a lot and 01 is really really good. Uh 01 and 03 mini I remember being really really good at writing swift code and writing highly technical like complex apps. So I always have a soft corner just for o O series models the thinking models first shift because it has that extra like intelligence when compared to any other model on the market. So I am just like use that a lot and so if you compare cloud code is really good at implementing the features like you can just give it it does that work and it's good at swift actually opus 4.5 is really good at swift I I used it like you can see that and uh but code uh GP5 high uh like five high I recently we experencing experiencing hotkey works like that's a very complicated work because you have to like go into niche uh like you know CG event which is written by KN in 1980s like that's a code that is still being run on Mac right and uh it it has like very very like bare minimum documentation but GP5 high is so good at ripping through all this complex code so I think that's one of the biggest unlock for me why I didn't hire or like get help from other developer It's just so crazy thinking about like before this stuff existed, like solving that problem would be you might like hire somebody for like a year to solve that. It'd be like a $200,000 problem. \>\> Yeah. \>\> And now it's just not. It's so it's kind of to me it almost makes me sad to say because like there's been so much blood lost over people, you know, and sweat \>\> expelled to solve these problems and now it's like we live in a world where we where we're like nah that's not a problem. \>\> Yeah. Yeah. Like before you used to like you know be very scared of these kind of technical problems. Now I'm like okay I have Jify I I don't have to worry. \>\> You got your partner? \>\> I I got my partner. I have Opus 4.5. Those are my like team members. I'm going to like, you know, delegate those tasks to them. So, I think that gave me really big conference post. Okay. I can do anything I want. \>\> I love that. All right. So, we're about to launch Monologue when this is out. It may actually already be launched. Um, what are your what are your hopes for it? Where do you hope to be in a year? Uh, what would be what would be a success for you? for me uh internal goal uh we have is in one year we want to hit 1 million AR for monologue it's \>\> by the way every as a whole just hit 1 million or like a little bit more than 1 million like recently so that's a big goal but I honestly I think we can do it I definitely think we can do it \>\> yeah so that's why like biggest goal is to hit 1 million uh AR but that's a big goal uh in one year if we do it like that would be crazy but at least for like year quarter for me is like release the iOS app. That's like one thing we getting lot of uh requests around and I want to release that iOS app. It's also technically challenging because Apple doesn't make it easy for us developers. So we have to somehow find loopholes uh iOS and then end of this uh uh year reach 10k MR. So that's my goal. \>\> Great. I love it. Oh, you're definitely going to do that. \>\> Yeah, \>\> definitely. \>\> Brandon's looking at the strength right now. \>\> I'm looking at the numbers. I think you're going to do that. Do more of that. \>\> Yeah. I I think one of the like really cool thing is, you know, every audience just like kind of amplifies it a lot. So, yeah. It's crazy. And I just love the way we are building because I think it's distribution first. So Dan did like really hard work from last seven years and I'm just like coming in and uh yeah \>\> just in the content minds for yeah five and a half years. Yeah. It's paying off. \>\> Yeah. Paying off now. So \>\> um well Naveen, I'm psyched for you. I feel so honored that we get to work with you and that we get to launch Monologue. I think it's going to be amazing and I can't wait to see what comes next. Thank you. Thank you. Same here. Like I'm just like every day wake up waking up I'm just grateful that I have this team and I have AI like with my and I can do anything like like yeah right now I'm in that zone where if user customer has some kind of problem we can solve it. So \>\> I love it. \>\> What a way to end. \>\> Yeah absolutely. \>\> I can do anything. \>\> Awesome man. \>\> Awesome. See you. \>\> See you. Oh my gosh, folks. You absolutely positively have to smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I. Why? Because this show is the epitome of awesomeness. It's like finding a treasure chest in your backyard, but instead of gold, it's filled with pure unadulterated knowledge bombs about chat GPT. Every episode is a roller coaster of emotions, insights, and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat, craving for more. It's not just a show, it's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship. So, do yourself a favor, hit like, smash subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you.