Interview with John Speed of Kilauea Pest Control, recorded in Oahu during Pest World. Paul Giannamore discusses how Speed built Kilauea from a one-person operation into the largest privately owned pest control company in the Hawaiian Archipelago, with emphasis on his "lifestyle first" approach to growing and running the business. # Channel Presentation Observations: "Off The Record with Paul Giannamore" ## Format & Presentation - **Interview/conversation format**: The video is a long-form, on-location interview between host Paul Giannamore and guest John Speed, a Hawaii-based pest control business owner. The conversational, unstructured style is observable throughout (e.g., casual exchanges about Hawaiian language: *"so aloha also means goodbye correct okay that's very versatile"*). - **"Off The Record" framing**: The title suggests an informal, candid interview series; the material demonstrates this via offhand banter, personal topics, and the host's direct familiarity with the guest (*"I've actually seen that in you… over the years"*). ## Intended Audience - **Business owners and entrepreneurs, specifically in pest control / home services**: The host references industry-specific knowledge and events — *"you're down in Puerto Rico last year… every businessman looks and says I can't get away for more than a week"*, discussion of door-to-door sales, termite treatments, fumigation, and Pest World (*"I was in Waikiki for Pest World"*). - **Aspiring/acquiring operators**: The host explicitly addresses listeners seeking growth models: *"what other kind of recommendations do you have for folks out there that are listening and aspire to be a lifestyle first guy that has a $10 million revenue business"*. ## Scope Demonstrated - **Founder-focused business storytelling**: Topics span founding history (2002 pest control startup), acquisitions (seven over 21 years), scaling to ~90 employees and ~$10M revenue, management structures, peer groups (EO, YPO, U-Group), and education programs (Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses). - **Lifestyle/business balance theme**: Explicit in the title ("Building a Business While Living a Full Life") and demonstrated through extended discussion of a year-long family trip around the world, Ironman training, and travel. - **Host expertise and network**: The host demonstrates insider knowledge — M&A references (*"when I was working on the Mail deal"*), YPO membership details, Puerto Rico tax structures, and personal connections within the industry (*"you've called me and said hey you had this guy on…"*) — suggesting the channel operates from an M&A/industry-advisor vantage point. ## Observable Host Positioning - The host identifies himself as someone with business responsibilities (*"I'm obviously not in the field but I'm way more engaged in the business right now"* — guest speaking; the host mentions *"I'm in a forum in Philippines… my forum is in Puerto Rico"*), indicating the host is a business figure interviewing peers rather than a journalist. - **References a broader content ecosystem**: The guest references *"you can listen to a lot of M&A Buzz"* content on long bike rides and the host mentions *"you had this guy on the Buzz"* — evidence of a related show or series ("Buzz") associated with the channel/host. ## Claims vs. Demonstration - **No explicit channel self-description** (no tagline, subscriber pitch, or stated mission) appears in the transcript; identity must be inferred from demonstrated format and audience. - **Creator claims about the guest are minimal**; the host's characterization of the guest (*"you really are a very curious dude… focused on educating yourself"*) is an observable conversational claim, not a channel-level claim. # Delivery Observation: John Speed — *Off The Record with Paul Giannamore* ## Format & Structure - **Conversational interview format** with the host driving topics (business origin, travel, peer groups, athletics), and the guest answering in extended, loosely-structured turns. - The interview **opens and closes with the same passage** — the guest's reflection on adventure and answers: > "I need some Adventure in my life I need something to care about and things get boring" This repetition appears verbatim at both [0] and [3531], suggesting the opening is a preview clip rather than a spontaneous re-statement. ## Guest's Delivery Patterns (John Speed) ### Recurring Phrases & Verbal Habits - **"what can be done"** is his signature phrase, repeated at least four times: - > "you see what can be done" - > "understanding again what can what what can be done" - > "seeing what can be done and what that looks like" - > "hey what can we do you know what can we Market who can we hire" - **Heavy filler of "yeah," "you know," and "um"** throughout nearly every answer — typical of unscripted, reflective speech rather than rehearsed talking points. - **Self-deprecating hedges** recur: - > "I'm the worst I've got a streak of like you know two days" - > "I wasn't the best academic growing up and I'm not now" - > "probably not the best" ### "Lifestyle First" Framing The guest repeatedly anchors business decisions in lifestyle language: - > "unfortunately for my wife I just I'm kind of Lifestyle first" - > "again I'm kind of Lifestyle first and so um" This phrase recurs verbatim, functioning as a self-description he returns to. ### Narrative Style: Short Answers, Concrete Details - Answers tend to be **brief and fact-anchored** rather than polished: "It was 2002 September of 2002," "maybe 2,200 students but over 90 countries represented," "about 90 employees and uh we'll probably hit 10 million next year." - He favors **specific numbers** even when hedging: "probably seven Acquisitions," "22 to 25 residential Pest Control technicians," "150 maybe 200 customers." ### Casual Register & Slang - > "no Panic I mean YOLO" - > "onesie twosy" - > "I was so over it" - > "don't mess with a good thing" (rendered "so I mess with a good thing" in the transcript) ### Relationship-Oriented Reasoning A consistent explanatory move is attributing outcomes to relationships and networks: - > "there's somebody somebody scaled Google somebody scaled Facebook it's just a matter of education" - > "I just called him up I was like Hey buy your customer list from you" - > "to build that relationship and to check in with them every few years" ## Host's Delivery Patterns (Paul Giannamore) ### Long, Layered Questions The host frequently stacks multiple questions in one turn: - > "so where did did you go what did you do and how the heck did you make that work with running a business" - > "what was the driving factor in coming to Hawaii like who woke up was your wife one day woke up and said let's do Hawaii or what" ### Direct Complimentary Summations The host periodically steps back to characterize the guest — a notable teaching/podcast habit: - > "you really are a very curious dude" - > "you really have focused on educating yourself" - > "you've built an awesome business with a great team" ### Mirroring & Confirmation - The host frequently echoes the guest's terms back: "big fish kind of in the small pond," "lifestyle first guy that has a $10 million Revenue business." ## Uncertainty Notes - **Timestamps are transcript line indices**, not reliable wall-clock times; no timestamped claims are made here. - Some verbal tics (e.g., repeated "yeah") may be transcription artifacts of back-channel agreement; the exact frequency of overlap between speakers cannot be verified from this text. - The guest's apparent ease with long pauses and restarts ("what what what can be done") is observable as text, but pace, tone of voice, and laughter cannot be assessed from transcript alone. # Position Record: John Speed — "Building a Business While Living a Full Life | Off The Record with Paul Giannamore" ## Speakers - **John Speed** — founder of a pest control business in Hawaii (founded Sept 2002), interviewee - **Paul Giannamore** — host, interviewer --- ## 1. Business Origins and Growth (John Speed) ### Founding story - Met his wife in Hawaii; both attended **BYU Hawaii** (~2,200 students, 90+ countries represented). - Did door-to-door pest control sales in Southern California summers; his brother built and sold a pest control company there. - Founded his own business in **September 2002**; first child born a few months later. - Started with brother and a friend selling for ~6 weeks, acquiring ~160 customers. Speed himself **never did door-to-door after that first season**. ### Slow-growth philosophy - **"It took me like 11 years to get to a million dollars."** - Attributes growth to **online reviews early on** (including review locations) and **~7 acquisitions over 21 years**. - First acquisition within the first year: bought a departing operator's customer list, having seen his brother sell routes in California. - Quote on acquisition discipline: *"Anything's worth something but that's not true… if it's taking away from what you have, that's not [worth it]."* ### Current scale (as stated) - ~**90 employees**; expects to hit **$10 million revenue next year**. - **22–25 residential pest control technicians**. - Acknowledges **middle management** as the weak layer: *"I have a great executive team but the middle management is where we've struggled a bit."* - Recent acquisitions: **two closed within a week** (Bugman in Maui/Micai, and one in Kaneohe whose owner joined as a service manager). - Bought an **orange oil company in 2019**; still does orange oil treatments, notes it's "difficult to get right." Notes competitors market orange oil but sell fumigation. - Does **not do fumigation** (some competitors are 60–70% fumigation); his business is ~50% termites; Hawaii has both Formosan subterranean and drywood termites. ### Hiring/recruiting position - BYU Hawaii students are "there to have a good time" — hard to recruit door-to-door salespeople in Hawaii unlike Provo, Phoenix, or Las Vegas. --- ## 2. Lifestyle-First Management Approach (John Speed) - Self-describes as **"Lifestyle first"**: fit the route around serving, built reputation but "it's hard to grow that way." - **"Abdication model" of management**: traveled without telling the office so staff would "step up"; later "weaned them off me." - Termite manager compensated on net business performance; general manager Ashley handled the rest — enabled his absence. - **Year-long family trip (2016–2017)**: home exchanges, Europe (5-month Volvo factory pickup), Switzerland for December, Hawaii for Christmas, New Zealand summer, then Vietnam/Thailand/Japan — "chased the sun south." - Did tell staff before leaving the year-long trip; set up a separate bank account for the termite manager. - On returning: family wasn't "really ready to come back"; trip strengthened family bonds ("that bond… will affect the rest of their life"). - Would he do it again? *"It'd be just my wife and I so it's like 50% her choice so it probably wouldn't [happen] — she's pretty happy here."* - After returning, adopted **EOS** and structure/meetings — "that's really helped us from that point really just crank." - Now **more engaged in the business than while traveling** — previously "didn't see a path." --- ## 3. Peer Groups and Education (John Speed) - **U Group** member for 4 years; group meets twice yearly in person, otherwise email-based; Jeff Phillips serves as executive director after his exit; Speed will host in January in Hawaii (first Hawaii hosting). - **EO** member for ~1 year, recently joined the board; Hawaii chapter is 50–60 people; values networking over coaching; joined partly because Hawaii has a **million-ish population market** and he wants to learn from local generational businesses. - Left an earlier coaching/peer group where he was "the big fish in the small pond." - **Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business** program — recommends it; requirements ~1 employee, $75k revenue; curriculum by Babson College; ~2 months, 10–15 hrs/week. Also holds an MBA from University of Hawaii (2008). ### Personal philosophy (closing statement) > "I need some adventure in my life, I need something to care about… there's an answer out there… somebody scaled Google, somebody scaled Facebook… it's just a matter of education… for me it's more the relationships… making it fun for myself." - On selling the business: *"I couldn't be out of the game right now… it's just way too much fun."* ### Giannamore's characterization of Speed - Very curious; exceptional self-education (podcasts, reading, peer groups, networking, cold-calling people for hours to solve problems). - Tension Giannamore notes explicitly: to outsiders Speed seems like a "surfer dude… I don't really have to work," but "you do work and you labor here." --- ## 4. Geography and Market Constraints (John Speed) - **Finite market**: Hawaii's population limits scale; keeps many companies from entering; "if Hawaii's your place… you just make it work." - **Declined outer-island expansion**: considered a Big Island acquisition; decided against committing resources — quotes owners who closed million-dollar Maui/Big Island operations due to hiring/management failures. Will do big projects on outer islands a couple days a week only. - **Maui acquisition** (closed April; wildfires ~4 months later): relationship built over 15 years; ~100 customers lost homes, no employee loss of life; describes the fire's aftermath as **catastrophic** with years-long recovery, compounded by tourism loss; working-class Lahaina residents who served the hotels were displaced. --- ## 5. Athletic Pursuits (John Speed) - Half Ironman in Puerto Rico; full Ironman in Kona via **resident lottery** despite a torn ACL and broken leg earlier that year (chose not to get surgery). - Training: ~6-month blocks, two-a-days near races; 5,000-yard swims, 6–7 hour weekend bike rides. - Puerto Rico race: trained only 3 months, got a PR — attributes to fear-driven consistency. - Goldman Sachs cohort connection provided free race entry and lodging in Puerto Rico. - Now shifting toward speed work ("fast 5k") and a Haleakala bike race — "I'm not getting any younger." --- ## 6. Paul Giannamore's Positions - **YPO Puerto Rico chapter**: ~157 members; chapter "bifurcated" between native Puertoicans from family business dynasties and mainland tax-incentive arrivals; his forum includes someone with a **$1.5B enterprise value** business. Joined Philippines as secondary chapter (165 members nationally vs. Puerto Rico's 157 for 3.3M people). - Notes YPO/EO revenue thresholds vary by region (Puerto Rico ~$17–18M; some regions $100M; EO Hawaii ~$1M; Hong Kong/Japan ~$20M); under-45 entry, membership in perpetuity. - Member of a forum in Puerto Rico; attends chapter events in the Philippines. - On Puerto Rico: tax incentives attract high-income mainlanders ("you have to be paying a lot of taxes for it to make sense"). - Post-Maria observation: six years later, still construction/materials challenges on an island. --- ## Recorded Uncertainties / Qualifications - Speed unsure whether his is **the largest privately held company in Hawaii**: "there's a couple that are about the same size" — and notes his excludes fumigation. - Speed on fumigation renewals: "we do it… probably not the best." - Speed's response to advice for aspiring lifestyle-first owners: *"I actually have to think about that… that's not an easy one"* — left unresolved. # Speaker Attribution Record ## Video **Title:** John Speed: Building a Business While Living a Full Life | Off The Record with Paul Giannamore **Video ID:** `01a168c8-a409-78ba-a4b8-e85bb8bf2ec7` ## Speakers & Roles ### Paul Giannamore — **Host / Interviewer (Creator)** - Drives the conversation, asks questions throughout; references his own experiences (Puerto Rico residence, YPO membership, working on "the Maui deal," attending Pest World). ### John Speed — **Guest (Primary Interviewee)** - Hawaii-based pest control business owner; founder (September 2002) of the business discussed; discusses family, travel, acquisitions, and athletic pursuits. ## Referenced Sources & Third-Party Claims (As Stated by Speakers) - **John Speed's business facts:** founded 2002; ~90 employees; ~$10M projected revenue; ~7 acquisitions over 21 years including "Bugman" in Maui/Makai and a local acquisition in Kaneohe; orange oil company acquired 2019. - **Third parties mentioned:** - Terminix — claimed to have stopped fumigation in Hawaii; acquired a local competitor after a "mutiny." - An unnamed Hawaii pest control owner — claimed FBI raid and imprisonment. - Jeff Phillips — post-exit executive director of the "U Group"; his father claimed as founding member. - Paul Giannamore's forum member in Puerto Rico — claimed $1.5B enterprise value business (unverified, speaker declined to name). - **Programs cited:** - **Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business program** — described as "mini MBA" with Babson College curriculum; Speed offers himself as a referral. - **EOS**, **EO (Entrepreneurs' Organization)**, **YPO**, **Vistage**, **U Group** peer groups — membership roles and thresholds discussed. - **Books:** *How the Mighty Fall* (Speed states he "re-listened" to it). - **Education:** BYU Hawaii (~2,200 students, 90+ countries per Speed); University of Hawaii MBA (2008, per Speed). ## Promotional Segments - **None explicitly flagged in transcript.** The Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business program receives sustained positive endorsement (Speed: "you can use me as a referral") — flagged here as a potential promotional reference rather than a confirmed ad segment. ## Comment Availability - **Not indicated** in supplied source material. ## Uncertainty Notes - Speaker attributions inferred from conversational structure and title; transcript contains no explicit speaker labels. - All business figures and third-party claims are self-reported by speakers and unverified. I need some Adventure in my life I need something to care about and things get boring you know it gets stale in life you got to do something different right but as the business is cranked up and and you see what can be done you say there is an answer to all those questions out there I just got to look for it I just got to see I just got to ask the question or figure out or being around people that have been through it or have a piece of the puzzle yeah you know there's a there's an answer out there there's somebody somebody scaled Google somebody scaled Facebook it's just a matter of education and I wasn't the best academic growing up and I'm not now but um again for me it's more the the relationships and understanding again what can what what can be done and then uh just doing my best and making it make it fun for myself so do you speak Hawaiian studying Hawaiian are you really yeah my my 3 minutes a day on Dual lingo my daughter makes me and uh I know like 10 words I'm the worst I've got a streak of like you know two days I mean are there people that roam the streets here actually having conversations in Hawaii like intelligible conversations at least by somebody yes yes so I mean and you're starting to hear it like in the airport yeah yeah you're sitting in the airport you'll hear like you know a full-on Hawaiian and there's been a kind of a Resurgence since the 70s 80s were you know or even 60s but we're yeah it's uh kids are growing up there's Hawaiian emerence schools yeah yeah you know I guess probably over time it's started to kind of somewhat get extinct and then now there's a Resurgence in that um yeah how long you been here John I've been here since 98 and you're just getting started in studying Hawaii and I would have thought that would have been something yeah yeah officially officially right you learn how to pronounce things and the street names and whatnot but uh so aloha also means goodbye correct okay that's very versatile yeah I like that yeah I I I've been here now what the better part of week I haven't been able to say that to anyone I just don't feel right saying it I feel like because you see like the Mexican run around he's like Aloha seems doesn't seem right so yeah I I yeah I noticed a lot more white people say it in Maui yeah yeah yeah just you mean more so than this island and this Island's actually called Haw aahu y so there's the island also called Hawaii yeah which is the which is the Big Island exactly which I noticed there's signs that actually say the big island so that's it's not the official term it's what the colloquial term for yeah the colloquial term okay yeah and I'm guessing that's the largest of the Hawaiian Islands that's the largest yeah everything else would fit inside that pretty much a couple times so you've been here since the '90s mhm yep went to school here up at BYU and was on the mainland for a couple of years after that but uh actually went to school here and then in the Summers or would go knock doors uh I was an eclipse guy in Southern California and uh my brother ended up starting a a pest control company down there had about three years built it he was a great door to-door sales guy and sold it and that's when my wife and I wanted to move back to Hawaii and started the business and it's been just 21 years now what was the you know what what was the driving factor in coming to Hawaii like who woke up was your wife one day woke up and said let's do Hawaii or what yeah so so we met here so we came independently she's from Oregon oh you met here I didn't yeah we met here we were neighbors and um I think for me growing up in Texas I just wanted something different and I can remember you know little things about Hawaii like somebody that moved to Texas that had a Hawaii driver our license played yeah and uh seeing the Iron Man on TV as a kid just like you know that seems like a good idea and so I eventually went to school up in Idaho and it was a two-year school at the time uh and then LDS school and so after two years you're like it's either Provo if you're going to go to church school at BYU or there's this little campus in Hawaii BYU Hawaii and that just sounded so much more reasonable to come to Hawaii and until last night I didn't even realize BYU Hawaii existed how big of a how big of a student body is at school like that maybe 2 200 students but over 90 countries represented okay so it's all over Pacific Asia Europe North and South America there's tons of students from from all over but yeah it's a small campus did your wife go there as well she did okay so that's how this all began yep got together there and uh yeah we uh just started going to California and doing the pest control thing during the summer and we wanted to move back to Hawaii um and it's what made sense I thought at least if nothing else I can scratch out of living here cuz it's um uh very prohibitive uh the cost of living yeah I'm realizing that in real time yeah so what year did you found your your business uh it was 2002 2002 September of 2002 and then we had our first child a few months later and um it was just starting out just me I I I had uh my brother and thank goodness I had a brother and a good friend that came out and sold pest control for me for like a month and a half okay got like 160 customers and as was in business and even though I did door too I never did it after that like I was so over it one season you did and you were done after I know you for for yourself for myself so I always thought I went to BYU Hawaii there's going to be other guys that I can hire and yeah come and there's just a different uh set of uh intention on the people that go to boou Hawaii they're there to have a good time okay you know and to drive 45 minutes to somewhere where you can actually knock doors is just it's it's it's tough and we've done it but there's it's um yeah it's it's not like a Provo or Rexburg or even even Phoenix or some of these other areas you know Las Vegas yeah you can get a lot of door too guys but not too much out here so in the second year I mean were you going out recruiting guys I mean your brother and your buddy left yeah so what did you do in your two uh watching a bunch of movies you know know doing my route uh just enjoying living here honestly I mean so you didn't have a sales team no you built the rout your one and you said this is said I'm I'm John speed I'm going to settle yeah yeah no I uh yeah um unfortunately for my wife I just I'm kind of Lifestyle first and so I'd go serve for uh you know fit my route in and you know take care of my customers got a good reputation but it's hard to grow that way but uh one time I was driving to a movie theater and somebody called me and said hey I see your truck I was like oh that's me so that's I was like I should go to more movies do that so where'd you take it from there John uh it was it was a real slow Burn yeah so it's so fascinating to be in some of these like Facebook groups or whatever you talk to guys and they're like oh I've been I've been in business 3 years I'm I'm only at 300,000 I'm only at like a half million I'm like it took me like 11 years to to get to a million dollars yeah a long time and so um we'd have the oneoff door to-door guy my brother did come out for another year and he trained a couple of guys to sell and so but it was like onesie TWY and same the Hawaii lifestyle you're getting 150 maybe 200 customers yeah in a summer okay half of those are going to cancel over three years and so it's a lot of I I was or we Kila was pretty early on reviews and actually location different locations of reviews too and so that's something that really supercharged us uh back in the day and then Acquisitions we had our we've done probably seven Acquisitions over the 21 years and the first one was within a year okay yeah it just somebody that left and he had actually referred a couple of customers to me okay and moved to the big island and uh I just called him up I was like Hey buy your customer list from you cuz I had seen my brother sell off a route in Southern California and then he eventually sold the whole whole thing yeah and so I'd seen okay that that's a thing is acquisition do that yeah and um people don't know what they're worth and I can't afford anything so it it worked out yeah okay so you did that acquisition you're growing this relatively slowly you've done another five or six over the years and you most recently did one when the beginning of this year is that right we did we closed two within a week of each other okay like one week apart and one uh one was uh bugman and Maui and mikai and then another one was a local one here in kyua and the kyua one was really it was really good because we needed um uh we needed a a really good service manager and the owner came on as a service manager super help and uh just a a another caliber of person to to add to the because we're probably running 22 to 25 residential Pest Control technicians and so my general manager has been running them and we we'll put in a we'll have somebody come up and have them Ser be a service manager and it just hasn't worked out so I have a great executive team but the middle management is where we've uh struggled a bit I see so how big is the business now like at the end of this year how big are you going to be so we have about 90 employees and uh we'll probably hit 10 million next year does that make you the largest privately held company on in Hawaii uh I don't know there's some there's a couple that are about the same size but I guess the biggest thing is we don't do fumigation and so some of these other companies are like like 60% fumigation 70% fumigation and so although our business is 50% termites it's we we s out some fumigation but we do more fumigation Alternatives like for example what would you guys do for fum or for for termite treatments down here and what sort are they Subterranean termite yeah so both so we have uh fosin termites so the really bad ground termites and we have drywood termites so which would you know necessitate uh fumigation or spot treatment or we we actually bought an orange oil company um in 2019 and that was a pretty good acquisition we had like five or six people come over from that and and they had been doing it the longest and so for orange oils it's good but it's difficult to get right you can you know do a lot of damage and not do it right and so they had it down pretty Pat and so to to acquire that one was was a nice fit for us are you still doing orange oil treatments we are yeah that's one of those things I see in California I see in Florida and I didn't realize that was going on out here as well but I don't see it in many places yeah and for here there's other companies that uh they Market it but it's a they're also doing fumigation and so they want to they'll market the orange oil but sell the fumigation right yeah charge a less we'll do the fume we'll get it down we'll be out of there okay so you know with the amount of fumigation that goes on down here leaves me to believe there's a ton of drywood yeah and what do you you guys you know is it typical when you're doing termite work down here in Hawaii to sell renewals like you do fume work sell a renewal on it m yeah you can do uh fume renewals um yeah and I know there's companies like in California that are they're really good about that we do it um probably not the best but but fumigation in itself has just been it's gone through a lot of I mean within 4 years you had Terminex sto doing fumigation you had the biggest P control company here in Hawaii have a mutiny and there was a great exit for the owner but that turned over to Terminex and then you had another fellow that the FBI raided his house and he's in jail for the foreseeable future I remember you were telling me about this yeah so it's an interesting you one yeah well P control is interesting where you go John you were down in Puerto Rico last year for was it a half halfon man half Iron Man so what what's a half is half Iron Man just half of half of an Iron Man okay yeah so you were down there and I was in London actually and I missed you when you passed through but I know that you travel a ton and I remember you took your family abroad literally for a year yeah traveled around so where did did you go what did you do and how the heck did you make that work with running a business because I every businessman looks and says I can't get away from more than a week how' this guy do it for a year yeah yeah so um again I'm kind of Lifestyle first and so um about 10 years ago uh my brother that lives here and I both got Airline benefits and thank goodness my wife doesn't like to travel but so we'd go on on these trips and and I just wouldn't tell my office and um and so they would call me up and in Patagonia or Switzerland or whatnot and yeah you know they're what you like and so they would get scared like hey this business is going to fail so so they they you know really stepped up and it's it's kind of the uh it's kind of the abdication model of uh wait of management so you you wouldn't tell them that you were I wouldn't tell him I was gone cuz I wasn't in the office too much anyway so so you were in Patagonia and they think you're here sitting in the back go yeah so when they find out I'm gone they're like oh okay kind of so I just kind of weaned them off me yeah and so um but it was still kind of a small company and so my wife and I like to travel we um when we were first married we we lived in China for a year and um like to get out and so we're like well if if we could grow the business and you know before our oldest gets into High School uh it'd be pretty cool to do you know take off a year and be with the family and we just think the culture of the family would be so strong yeah and so we worked towards that and what we did is a lot of actually home exchanges and so we reached out to people in Europe or Thailand or whatnot and see we were going to start with a with a Around the World ticket that you can get but um my wife has an aversion to cold so we knew that we wanted to be in New Zealand for their summer January February and so the idea was hey we'll go to we'll go to Europe and we'll kind of cruise around Europe so we we actually flew in um you know picked up a Volvo you know you order it from the factory you could pick it up and usually people are doing it for like two weeks and we're like okay we want insurance for five months okay and so we just basically started from the north and endless summer just kind of worked our way to Italy and then uh in December I have family in in Switzerland so we spent some time with them before we went back and then came back to Hawaii for Christmas and then did the whole New Zealand thing for a couple of months and and then finished up in Asia Vietnam Thailand Japan so you just chased the sun South effectively and so how it you were traveling with your wife and your three children MH and what year was this uh this is 2016 2017 so for the school that school year so your daughter was like four yeah yeah and she was a trooper and just them us us homeschooling them you know homeschool so literally you're driving around the vvo like homeschooling them in the back yeah yeah yeah what did and from a work perspective what did you have to do not a lot um from pretty much the start my termite manager was compensated on how well his his business did so from from the net yeah and so if he's doing well then I'm doing well you know and he was he always motivated in that way and and a great guy anyway and then my general manager uh Ashley just kind of took care of everything else and she had been with me for a lot of years and uh some other longtime employees that that knew the drill and we just kind of worked worked into it yeah and so uh it was more when I got back it's was like well okay I'm here I can jump in or not and uh that's when you know we started learning more about e um EOS M and putting some systems together and some actual meetings and some structure there uh that's really helped us from that point really just crank now when you left for a year did you tell him you left uh or at least did you tell him before you left I did tell him before I left okay yeah yeah we had a separate bank account that uh that our termite manager could could write checks on what was that like did you go in there and say guys I don't do anything anyway so you're not going to miss me or pretty much yeah no Panic I mean YOLO yeah the kidss are only young ones and uh you know this is kind of crossing our fingers but financially it was doable again just because people want to come stay in Hawaii for weeks at a time and so to be able to swap houses and that sort of thing that was that was pretty neat so when you look back at that experience I mean you did this for a year you were I guess constantly with your family like 24/7 for a year I think that could drive some people nuts yeah no it was it was great and and I you know maybe if it was different kids it would be a different story but they were all amazing and just worked together and and me and you know one of my sons is like more more adventurous and so a lot of times it's like hey if we're we're staying you know south of Rome and we're like okay I'm going to drive up to Rome and cruise around for the day and like anybody want to go with me like okay and by that you know four months into it everybody's like okay no we're just gonna stay H out here and try to get some internet and you know do some school or whatever just downtime and then I could go whenever I wanted and the if kids wanted to join me or hey we're doing this a couple of days where everybody's going together but we didn't try to you know kill everybody every day you got to kind of pace yourself well that's what I was curious about it's like you know when you take a family trip you go for a week or two weeks you know you're bounce around all day long doing all sorts stuff then you're exhausted at the end cuz you did stuff MH in normal life you get up you have breakfast you go to work come back whatever it's kind of Groundhog's Day to a certain degree I mean how much of that took place over the course of the I mean it certainly wasn't activity all the time I me were there points in the year there where you felt like oh I live in Scotland like yeah and it you got up had breakfast worked absolutely and had to and had to find what you like to eat at the grocery store yeah and so it wasn't like a vacation where we're staying in a hotel and eating out every me it's a lot of like going for groceries and figuring out how this stove works with no words there's just like 15 different you know settings like what what is little drawings that mean absolutely nothing yeah yeah like how can there be that many settings yes that's that reminds me of Switzerland yeah yeah so um what was some of your favorite experiences from that trip question um I think the kids have said Scotland and Japan were their favorite uh for me I think both of those were great um I love England my my ancestors are from England and like the um uh yeah so I I like England but but Italy's always great Switzerland's always I I think if I could have you know a second home it' probably be Switzerland uh spend and and we all like that except you know the cold for my wife doesn't work out too much yeah but that's where um and then New Zealand is just amazing the people um again a little too cold but um we had a great time in New Zealand and I can always travel there I've not been to New Zealand yeah it's it's on my list yeah yeah you need to get down there and what do you think about from an impact on your children how do you look at it um I know it it was life-changing for us as a family to connect and you don't have they don't have other friends this is I mean they're young right so no social media no anything and um that that bond that they had from that um will affect the rest of their life yeah you know and they all like to travel um you know when I my my daughter you know doesn't want to do a whole lot with me as a you know a middle schooler yeah but if I'm like hey you want to go to Japan she doesn't even really like skiing but you want to go to Japan go to Taylor Swift yeah let's do it yeah she's down yeah you know um and you know my other boys just to give them their perspective you know especially so formative you know to uh to study a language or to be out and that's something that I um I didn't have too much but again um when I was growing up in Texas every couple of years my Swiss cousins would come visit and they were just so different right and they would bring the the Swiss chocolate and just like oh that's it's cool to know what else is out there and their accent and the older they got the you know the more you know we could speak to each other but uh and yeah just to have those relationships growing up was pretty pretty neat where in Switzerland did you guys stay along your trip um we stay kind of all over but uh but around Lake Geneva pretty much uh my cousins live on the opposite end of Lake Geneva from from Geneva uh up in the mountains little BYT Town Yeah by Montreal and um so we we usually go there they have a ski shop and so for my brother and I it's like way cheaper just to go there and actually the the lift tickets are way cheaper in Switzerland than like a Park City or something else so um can stay for free can use their equipment and stuff and it's just again it's it's just a different different scene than going to Utah or Colorado to ski did you spent any time in Geneva proper um no I mean I've been around seen the museums that sort of thing you know driven slowly across and I I you know if I'm flying out that night maybe I'll go for the day and go see the PCH shop or yeah something like that okay how was it when you when you guys ultimately came back was it like reverse culture shock now we're back in Hawaii yeah um I don't think any of us were really ready to come back so to speak um it it it is wearing on you but it was uh it was a great time so um I could do it again will you do it again would I do again uh well it be just my wife and I so it's like 50% her choice so it probably wouldn't she's she's pretty happy here okay yeah I I guess the next trip will be Taylor Swift in Japan is that right that's where you guys are going to go hopefully that's the yeah that works out but yeah she uh yeah she yeah if it's traveling she's down but uh you know she's like any other teenager likes to spend her time you know reading on the computer that sort of thing so it's like you can do that from anywhere and um crazy enough I mean I'm obviously not in the field but I'm way more engaged in the business right now and it's a lot more fun than when I when I was traveling or even soon there after you know cuz I didn't see a path you know it's like okay well this is this is it the business is doing good but um you know to really you know and being around other business owners and different peer groups and things like that is uh really helped out so you're saying back then it was just kind of it is what it is so I'm going to go and it's kind of growing and whatever but now would you have a different vision for the business do you what is it that how really is your mindset changed um it's just just so much more clarity you know from then it's like okay we want to grow we want to get bigger to do more things for us and our employees and create more opportunity but what does that look like what is that number like I don't know when when you're that small and and it had taken so long to get to that point it was kind of hard to imagine I guess yeah yeah and so again uh so I'm a member of the U group and the last four years and so being around some of those personalities and businesses and seeing what can be done and what that looks like and just kind of putting more into Focus what what a pest control business can do um and everybody does something a little bit different and so to to see that and and take oh this is interesting or oh I can call this guy you know about this issue that he's dealt with you know yeah and uh it's super helpful and then again just putting into Focus what what can be done and and knocking that down to to get to those different benchmarks and I understand that you will be hosting the U group in January here is that right in January no I I remember seeing you guys I'm trying to think where was at Tampa you guys had that you meeting in Tampa I remember when I was working on the male deal and I think this was before not muel modern this is before you joined in 2017 that was before you right yes I remember they had a u group meeting up there but if I remember correctly the U group hosts roughly two inperson meetings per year and you guys kind of take turns hosting M so you've never hosted here in Hawaii this be the first time yeah they keep they keep putting it off but uh you know when we talk about it it's like oh somebody wants to do it in the winter you know and cuz you know it's it's C on the mainland you want to come during the winter but then you can't bring the kids and so it's it's kind of been that back and forth but what about I mean isn't it somewhat bizarre that we're down here for pestor in October and then four months later you'll be doing yeah there'll be some people coming back super odd but they've just pushed it along so much they're like we're going to Hawaii let's do this and this is when it fell okay and when you host you what does it look like it's two or three days and your whole group flies in yeah so do a site visit kind of talk to some of our people have some nice meals um go over the issues that are affecting everybody and then uh in our Janu raing we're we're looking at specific numbers and you know Apples to Apples how everybody's doing and uh there's not a whole lot of accountability but you have that uh openness and there's going to be some questions that come hey how did you do that yeah like what does that look like for that marketing budget or that you know that growth over last year or you know and and it seems like every every year it's like somebody has like I've had like super high years and I've had super low years compared to everybody so and just different parts of the country and understanding those Dynamics are pretty pretty interesting yeah yeah and in addition to the U group I I remember you talking about EO mhm so you're involved in that and you got involved in that that because you were implementing EOS is that how was all tied in or no no um I was in another peer group so I I just really enjoyed the you group you know in the industry side but for somebody that didn't grow up in Hawaii and um kind of kept to myself I wanted to be more involved with the community and the business Community specifically so I was in um a coaching and and small peer group and not that I outgrew them I really enjoyed it but as was kind of the big fish in the small pond and we just don't have the same issues and so from there I was looking at at like a vistage or an EO and I I felt like I I needed the the more the group the networking more than coaching and and as a again just becoming more clear on my journey is I don't have a whole lot of issues that come up in my business I mean it's slow growth but it's it it it runs pretty well with our with our team but what I need out of it is just being stoked on somebody else what they're doing and whether it's you know scaling or um you know whatever their their marketing efforts or their HR stuff and their culture and to see that from a local side is uh just very beneficial for me and to understand uh Hawaii's really different and so to see uh see how people have done it here yeah and there's a lot of uh generational businesses and um and then you only have this million siiz Market population what can you do with that right and so that what keeps a lot of companies from coming out here yeah is like there's that's it you know that's a lot of lot of work for this little market um and it and it's hard to live here like I said with the yeah um the cost of living and things like that but if Hawaii's your place like you just make it work so when did you get involved in EO uh it's been about a year oh so far yeah so very recent yeah just a year and um it's been really cool to be so I just got on the board recently which is kind of odd for a first year person but um it's been really neat again to work with some of the people that I joined eo4 to see how they run their businesses and now to work with them on and be accountable and that sort of thing to um things that the the EO chapter is trying to do here yeah yeah and how big is the chapter here um it's between 50 and 60 people okay that's decent size yeah yeah and I don't I don't really understand the the mechanics of that when it comes to meetings how often do you guys get together and and and and are you meeting in kind of sub group like a forum yeah so it's a forum it's kind of like YPO and um and then there's chapter events and then there's like Regional events right okay and so um and so you can take as much or as little as you want of that some people aren't even form uh we have a relationship with Asia so there's an Asia bridge that some people just want to meet people in China or Japan or Vietnam and um you know build those relationships and so they're not even in a forum you know but a forum you're generally meeting you know eight nine people most months maybe nine 10 times a year yeah and uh that's that's super helpful as well are you in a forum here MH yeah yeah yeah well it's very much like YPO I mean we meet nine months of the year yeah once per month I think there's eight of us in our for yeah it's very similar yeah how big is the YPO chapter in Puerto Rico we just had our annual meeting in I think it's 157 157 it's pretty big it's I joined the I joined Philippines as a secondary chapter just because I'm there quite often for business and there's like 165 for the whole country of 110 million people versus Puerto Rico with 3.3 million people so wow yeah so you're are you in a forum I'm in a forum in Philippines in Puerto Rico in Puerto Rico so I'm just I'm a member of the chapter there so I go to chapter events but now my my my um my form is in Puerto Rico and you know it's very unique for um you know Puerto Rico is very interesting because you know you have the tax incentives in Puerto Rico and so the our chapters somewhat bifurcated and we've done a great job integrating it but we've got roughly 65% or so are Puerto Rican native kind of Puerto Ricans that many of them come from like family business business dynasties like bardi right comes down over time and then the other 40% are mainlanders who've moved to Puerto Rico and when you have um you know if you're going to move to Puerto Rico to save on taxes you actually have to be paying a lot of taxes in order to have it make sense M and um so a lot of the folks that come there coming down there to save you know 25 or 50 million perom in taxes so that implies the income is quite high and in order to have high income you've got a massive business so like in my Forum you know there's an individual in there who's got a business that's got a $1.5 billion do Enterprise Value um we've got I don't want to go too into detail as to who's in my Forum but we've got very you you said that you were the big fish kind of in the small pond and of this of another peer group of the other peer of the local peer group the good thing about this for me is I'm the exact opposite MH like I am small compared to everyone else I mean some of these guys run businesses that operate in 75 countries and do you know billions of dollars per anom they have a whole different set of problems that I have though and so uh and many of the problems that they have hope I never have um but they yeah it's it's it's different but that so that's one of the things that's really cool about the Puerto Rican chapter is that we have that mix okay so in Hawaii it's I think it's a million dollar minimum to join EO and I think YPO is now to like 15 million is that track for Puerto Rico yeah I think that sounds about right I I thought there was one international stand standard for Puerto Rico but I've I've seen now that they've it's done by region um you know some regions where there's a high concentration of business you have to do 100 million USD per year in Revenue um in Puerto Rico now it's I think it's 17 or 18 million in Revenue um and of course you've got to be under 45 to join mhm um you can get in and stay in perpetuity and we have 70y olds running around there and 80y old I think we have an 85y old in our chapter um but uh yeah now it's been a great experience yeah that's cool cuz I know in EO and like Hong Kong or Japan it's like 20 million to to join it's like quite a bit more yes you know and it's more Founders as opposed to Hired Guns or yes somebody that's just scaled up very quickly yeah no you're right it depends on the concentration of businesses there for sure mhm so I'm glad glad you're joining I'm glad you're enjoying EO I'll be interested to see how that goes you coming near for you so you you're doing that and you're doing the UR group The U group is not that time intensive right do you guys do at the U group do you do quarterly calls or monthly calls or you just doing the two times perom no we ours is pretty old school it's uh you know just some emails when people have questions and and just about everybody will chime in on those on those emails or uh and we have done you know obviously pandemic you know we did some uh um did some Zoom calls and whatnot but yeah it's pretty much the the two meetings is uh is Jeff Phillips still involved he is yeah so after his exit um he wanted to stay on he enjoyed the relationship his I think his dad was an original member of the E Group a founding member and so he uh just suggested he'd become the executive director and handle some of the organization for the group and it's it's been super helpful to still have him around that's great he's extremely organized he is yeah he's a perfect guy for that yeah so when you're not traveling and you're not hanging out with your EO and U group buddies you're still building a business and I actually you know earlier on when you said that you've got more kind of focus since I've known you I've actually seen that in you I mean I've seen that you ask a lot of questions you're very inquisitive about I know youwork with a lot of folks but you really seem to be and you wouldn't have just done two Acquisitions here recently if you weren't focused on building this so you've got a unique geography you've got a unique pest ecosystem here clearly and you've also kind of built this business using an unique management structure right you talked about your termite manager kind of with a piece of the action so to speak or stake in the outcome as as you built this I mean when you think about the future you're in a finite Market the population is just only so big here do you think about ancy Services yeah so that that's definitely something that I think about and um again with especially with EO and just learning about all the you know the importing and the sourcing from Asia and that's that's where I thought I I would probably end up when I was at school here it's like hey I like to travel I've been to Asia I have these relationships um I have family that work over there in importing and exporting like it that's totally reasonable you know or move to California and do that um so you look at at what's available to scale and then you're looking at what can you do here in Hawaii and um again you kind of have to say when to say when you can you can partner with somebody yeah uh you can do stuff on the mainland but I guess when I want to travel it's less for business and more for fun yeah right so if I'm doing something on the mainland like I don't think it would take a whole lot away from the business here but it would definitely take away from my family and something else so so in that respect the last few years I've been more honed in on okay we're going to do something something in Hawaii and we're going to go and whatever opportunity that takes us cuz there's different opportunities and of course I'm I I just relistened to how the Mighty Fall recently and to be able to you know not keep your eye on the ball and not you know keep all those plates spinning um you can do it and you can do it with a team and you can do it with Partners um so it's it's really about like identifying what's here and then also I I looked at an acquisition um on the big island earlier this year and you know to be able to think through or actually actually in 2019 when we had that acquisition there was somebody he had work on all the islands and we're just like okay it I can get this for not a whole lot and we can scale it but but can we and how many resources from aahu are we going to have to take to make this work and and it just I always say this on Acquisitions is anything's worth something but that's not true yeah you know if it's taking away from what you have that's not yeah that's uh I've got better things to do with my time yeah right and so said okay well we're not doing outer Island you know and we'll go we'll definitely go to outer Island for for big projects you know a couple of days a week knock some stuff out and just that does expand our Market but to commit resources and to you know effort I really had to think through this this Maui acquisition you know is this something that is going to be worth it what's the population of Maui 150,000 maybe something like that um and so to you know so that grows our Market size 15% yeah you know but for Maui it was more you know you have to look at the opportunities in Hawaii Acquisitions don't just don't come up that often right and this particular one I'd been working with them for honestly 15 years ago I flew over and looked at buying them you know and of course it was ridiculously you know out of our ballpark but to build that relationship and to check in with them every few years and and it finally worked out uh and it's uh you know it's it's kind of a fun project yeah you know especially you know for a team that has these resources and like hey what can we do you know what can we Market who can we hire and um you know I definitely wouldn't do that on some of the other islands and there's other companies that have done that but then I've I've talked to some of those business owners that have had business on all the islands and it just the it it's very very difficult you've had million-dollar businesses on Big Island or Maui that they've had to close down completely because they couldn't get the hiring right or get the management right and so um you know you know I I uh I you have limited bandwidth and um you know things are going really well here on waho so I mess with a good thing you closed that maii acquisition when April and then what 4 months later 5 months later wildfires blew through yeah what sort of an impact did that have on the island and then the business um the the business not too much um I mean we had about a hundred customers lose their homes um we had no loss of life for our employees our employees family we have a lot of employees here on a Wahu that have family there um but but as far as the actual fires and the devastation there it's it's it's catastrophic and to to see through that and see the whole world see that everybody wants to help but the logistics on some you you're on an island yeah you know how that works it's very very difficult and it's such a long-term thing that it's going to be Years to you know fund real estate and fund these mortgages and help people that were displaced to live and are they ever going to be able to get back into that home and so many of those homes that was the working class to to support that whole west side of the island the really nice hotels all the um you know people working in the hotels worked in Lina yeah and so it very very difficult uh and then with the loss of Tourism on top of that um it's very much a two-edged sword um people that made it through um Co you know have left Maui because they they can't make it work or you know back they just don't have the the the tourism that they need to survive yeah no being in Puerto Rico I understand that I me six years post Maria still still working on construction you know bringing materials to an island way out the middle of nowhere what a challenge you know speaking of Maui so what where are we looking at now off this way okay so out this this way we are looking uh East and let's see if we're looking so kawhai is over there and then the whole island chain goes that way so that way you Pro you're probably looking at M next and that's been really fun to have the acquisition and to be over there and see our technician and uh I've ridden around with them met at some of our customers and uh it's just a small I think there's like 177,000 people on the island so it's uh it's not a money maker but it is it is really neat to support the community yeah and to uh be able to go over there and uh and and be be a little part of that um and then from there it's just Maui and lenai and Big Island whatnot and so this is North I'm guessing uh North is kind of that north and east I mean this is stunningly beautiful out here John how long have you been at this place now uh this place uh about 2 and a half years yeah yeah it really is awesome thanks Paul love it it's been the you know I I really appreciate you having us out here because you know I was in yiki for pest world and I literally didn't leave what like the five block radius and my first time in Hawaii I was struck by the beauty of the mountains and the foliage as we drive up here it's really pretty you guys got Puerto Rico beat for sure when it comes to kind of the mountains and the uh and the forest the uh there's a real there's a lot of famous paintings of the the cola mountains that you have behind you and one in particular that's always you see from different artists is uh the poly Lookout where King kameha came up the valley and pushed his enemies over the cliff okay and I've always wanted to to buy that picture for my wife and uh and so this particular house the way it's situated is in the bedroom when you're in bed you're looking out and it's the actual poly Lookout right there it's pretty it's pretty neat did you plan that uh the the Builder definitely planned that did he yeah yeah I know you're heavily involved in doing these Iron Mans what's your routine look like um well traditionally I've it's it's about six months out you really want to start training and get a getting a base and so the the race here in Hawaii is in June and so it's January to June I'm training and then I kind of have an offseason I'm traveling more I'm eating more I'm goofing off I'm enjoying the offseason you get Christmas and then it kind of starts all over and it's so painful to start off with no training and and it's gotten so painful that i' like I have to trick myself into doing something else and so this year I got through I did the half Iron Man on Big Island and was like you know what I need to bike through the through the winter and so um so I'm like there's a race up hakala on Maui and so I I'm going to do that next next summer and so got another bike and um have been doing more Hill work MH and and with that I'm like I'm also like I'm not getting any younger so let's see if I can get any speed because I've been doing endurance for since I'm 30 maybe M uh just running or marathons or half Iron Man's Iron Man's whatnot so um so just looking something for something different a little Adventure in my life right a little something different so um so I've been doing speed workk to try to do like a fast 5k and it's really been painful and so I don't know how much longer I'm keep running but uh to answer your question that's that's January start off and start you know doing some running and biking you start doing some swimming maybe 3 months into it and when I did Puerto Rico was kind of interesting I was I was involved and I I'd actually recommend this for anybody uh in the pest control business small companies uh I did uh the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business program and it happened to be they they you do it's like a mini MBA for a couple of months and then they fly out to New York we stayed at you know Goldman Sachs there and your last week is working with in person that you've been on Zoom with for a couple months so so happened in my cohort there was a lady that was running the or not R uh yeah not literally running but she was an organizer for the Puerto Rico half Iron Man okay and this was December and it it's in March and she's like hey if you want to do it I'll I'll give you free you know a free race and I was like well you have a place to stay she's like yep you can stay with me like perfect game on so I mon three months okay yeah so I went from very unhealthy to 3 months later doing that uh that race and and I actually got a PR on that race yeah yeah so so maybe that's a PR and PR that maybe that's your stick you just you just need 90 days maybe you've determined that well when you only have three months like you are sticking your training every day you're scared like this race is coming up and I don't want to either blow up or not be ready or you you know putting the money to fly from Hawaii to Puerto Rico and you know whatever all this effort like you you want to have a good race so so what's your what's a a typical day in that 90-day period look like like what are you doing like you wake up in the morning then what happens he about your day so pretty quickly you're getting into two a days so you're doing an hour of swimming and maybe an hour of running okay and when I did my well and it's been interesting since doing the full Iron Man in Kona um I I had a I had a a really good coach for that one and I also broke my leg like in February of that year and then 2 weeks later I got a a letter saying hey you won the resident Lottery you can go to World Championships without having to qualify for it so just cuz I lived in Hawaii I got to do the K of Iron Man but so I'm like eight months out I have a torn ACL and broken leg and my doctor's like well you you got to get surgery but if you don't get surgery you could probably train and maybe you could do it and so I'm like G let's do this so I didn't get surgery and um yeah just I I got a really good coach and and again I'm just so scared not to do my training for that day yeah and so but you work out to to your last couple of months you are doing you know 5,000 yards in the pool you know and maybe you know six seven hours on the bikes on the weekends you know once a once a month with you can listen a lot of boardroom buzz on those boy wow so you mentioned the Goldman Sachs what so it's the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business program I think you have to have at least one employee and like $75,000 in business so it's very very accessible um but I learned about it from a couple of people in Hawaii that had had done it and and so I applied and and and one year I am implied in 2019 and uh when I'm on the zoom with the people interviewing me they're like uh so do you have any plans coming up I'm like well I'm I'm doing an Iron Man in October and they're like okay yeah you're you're done you're not going to do the you're not going to have enough time to do the program that starts at September yeah and put in it's probably a good you know 10 to 15 hours a week of what of of classroom work and then little group work outside of that classroom but it's every week is you know marketing or talking to a banker or your financials and great program so you learned a lot from that yeah really yeah so I I did an MBA at University of Hawaii in 200 uh graduating 2008 MH and and so I've been do an NBA program and that it was pretty good yeah pretty good it was uh Babson College out of uh Boston that does uh does the curriculum and whatnot but how long does it last uh it's about two months okay yeah so you recommend it to your brothers and sisters out there in the industry yes sir and uh usually have to be um you know uh referred and so you can use me as a referral John speed referral Don what other kind of recommendations do you have for folks out there that are listening and aspire to be a lifestyle first guy that has a $10 million Revenue business who lives in a tropical Paradise you know uh great question um I actually have to think about that yeah that's not an easy one is it um no I will say one thing that I've noticed about you over the years is like you really are a very curious dude MH and you've really you more than anyone else I can't think of many people in the industry that really focus on educating themselves like you have not only do you listen to podcasts you're reading you're in Ur group you're in EO you're doing this Goldman Sachs thing that I've never heard about right and you're also you network with people you get on the phone with people you ask questions I mean over the years you've called me and said hey you had this guy on the buzz and he talked about something can you connect me yeah and then you call some dude up and you talk to him for an hour or two and you figure out a problem so you really go above and beyond you know you you to the outside world you're like I'm this surer dude I live in Hawaii like I don't really have to work man I travel around but like no you do work and you labor here and you really have focused on educating yourself and I think anyone that knows you well would say that so maybe not but I think so yeah well I think it I kind of Al ties back to if I need some Adventure in my life I need something to care about and and things get boring you know it gets stale life you got to do something different right but as the business has cranked up and and you see what can be done you say there is an answer to all those questions out there I just got to look for it I just got to see I just got to ask the question or figure out or being around people that have been through it or have a piece of the puzzle yeah you know there's a there's an answer out there there's somebody somebody scaled Google body skilled Facebook like there like it's just a matter of education and I wasn't the best academic growing up and I'm not now but um again for me it's more the the relationships and understanding again what can what what can be done and then uh just doing my best and making it make it fun for myself yeah and it seems like you're having a lot of fun yeah yeah yeah that's people ask me about selling the business or whatnot and uh I I couldn't be out of the game right now like it's just just way too much fun you built an awesome business with a great team of size and a in a beautiful place and uh you brought us out here during pest world so I appreciate that you're welcome my pleasure super fun to have you Paul thanks thank you you