Interview from Pest World 2024 in Denver with Mitch Smith, President and COO of Saela Pest Control, hosted by Paul Giannamore of The Potomac Company. Topics include prioritizing customer retention over acquisition, key service metrics such as NPS, reservice rates, and cancellations, aligning service delivery with customer expectations, diagnosing branch performance through field visits, leadership and company culture, business acquisitions, and P&L management practices drawing on Smith's experience at Rollins and TruGreen. # Channel Identity Observations: Pothole/“Patomic TV” Interview #PestWorld2024 ## Explicit Self-Description Evidence - **Channel name stated by host:** The host identifies himself as **"Paul Jamison"** (transcribed as "Paul jamore") and the channel as **"Patomic TV"** (transcribed as "pomac TV" / "patomic TV"). > "hi I'm Paul jamore I wanted to welcome our new subscribers to the channel... thanks for joining us here at patomic TV" - **Stated channel focus:** Business and operational content for a specific owner audience. > "historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential Commercial Services business owners" - **Stated content expansion:** The host announces new M&A masterclass content driven by viewer demand. > "my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests so Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the sell side as well as the buy side" - **Viewer-driven framing claim:** > "this channel is largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us" ## Intended Audience (as evidenced) - **Primary audience:** Owners/operators of residential and commercial service businesses, especially pest control (interview conducted at **PestWorld 2024** per title tag "#PestWorld2024"). - **Illustrated audience persona:** The host frames questions through a hypothetical owner — "I run a million dollar a year Pest Control business I've got maybe nine technicians" — indicating content pitched to small/mid-size operators thinking about growth and eventual exit ("someday I might want to exit"). ## Claimed Scope vs. Demonstrated Scope | Claimed | Demonstrated in this video | |---|---| | Interviews with service business owners/operators | Interview with **Mitch Smith**, President/COO ("president COO of sa" per transcript) and former Rollins/Orkin division president | | M&A masterclass content coming | Deep M&A discussion: acquisition due diligence, seller/founder chemistry, metrics that attract buyers | | Operational business information | Detailed operational coaching: retention, NPS, reservice rates, cancellation rates, P&L literacy for branch managers | ## Observable Presentation Patterns (not claimed) - **Interview format** with a returning guest ("when was the first interview was it 21... you've come a long way"), suggesting an ongoing guest-relationship series. - **Event-based content production** at an industry trade show (PestWorld), with ambient context ("everyone walking around here is always asking questions"). - **Audience engagement CTAs:** subscribe prompt, email distribution list link, and comment solicitation ("feel free to put a comment below on the types of things you want to see"). - **Monetization-adjacent signals:** reference to a prior "cide m&a master class" publication and planned multi-part series. ## Notes / Caveats - The transcript contains probable transcription errors in names ("pomac TV," "Paul jamore," "Orin" for Orkin, "sa" for the guest's company), so exact channel/host spellings cannot be confirmed from this material alone. - No private motivations inferred; all observations above trace to quoted transcript passages or the video title. # Delivery Observation: Mitch Smith — #PestWorld2024 Interview (Pesticide TV) ## Overall Delivery Character Conversational, animated executive interview style. The guest answers in flowing, self-correcting speech — frequently restating and refining his own points mid-sentence — while the host drives structure with follow-up questions. --- ## Voice & Tone Features ### Passionate, Self-Aware Enthusiasm - Mitch explicitly flags his own intensity: > "I'm a little overly passionate about this stuff" - He repeatedly uses intensifiers — **"wildly"** is a signature adverb, appearing many times: - > "wildly connected" - > "wildly important" - > "wildly more important" - > "wildly good indicator" - **Uncertainty note:** the frequency is clearly habitual (well beyond chance), making "wildly" a stable marker of his delivery. ### Conversational Self-Correction and Restatement He constantly reformulates rather than committing to one phrasing: > "maybe maybe the better way to say it is is understanding what drives value" > "it it's not the most certainly not the most important factor" This hedge-and-retry pattern is a consistent structural habit across the whole transcript. ### Direct Address and Rhetorical Questions He converts abstractions into second-person scenarios, putting the listener in the customer's seat: > "Paul, the mice are gone I'm paying you let's just say $100 every time you come out here where's the value coming from if I don't see it" > "why am I writing you that $100 check or having you withdraw that from my credit card or my bank account every 60 days or 90 days" --- ## Recurring Phrases & Vocabulary ### Anchor Concepts Repeated - **"Job well done"** — used as a personal metric of recognition, repeated verbatim: > "I want to give you a job well done" ... > "so that you know what a job well done looks like" ... > "you're really doing a great job job well done" - **"On time on schedule"** — recurring metric phrase: > "am I on time on schedule" (repeated twice more in the metrics discussion) - **"Peel back the layers"** — diagnostic metaphor: > "I want to peel back the layers and see what's going on" ... > "we're just going to start peeling back the layers" - **"Foundation / foundationally"** — framing device: > "the value that comes from foundationally focusing on that the service delivery" - **"It's the people business"** / **"we are in the people business"** — identity claim stated at least twice. - **"Value"** — the single most frequent noun in his answers (value delivery, value driver, value proposition), appearing dozens of times. ### Metaphorical Framing - Growth vs. foundation: > "growth is the fun side of the business right is the way I classify it" - Financial literacy as education: > "I got a masters in p&l management" - Metrics as story: > "metrics tell you a big deal big part of that story" and > "it tells a story" --- ## Teaching Habits ### Concrete Micro-Scenarios When asked conceptual questions, he grounds answers in vivid pest-control specifics rather than abstractions: > "when somebody calls you and they've got you know mice in the pantry or ants... we go out there we kill the the the ants" > "are there still webs right in the eaves or in the window seals" ### Metric-Chain Teaching He teaches causally linked indicators rather than isolated numbers: > "we know that if your NPS scores are dropping that we're going to see reservice rates are going to be escalating you're going to see cancellations... that's going to happen 60 90 120 days" ### Checking for Understanding He periodically seeks listener confirmation, a teaching-habit signature: > "does that make sense" > "I can I can grasp that" (host response) ### Positive-First Feedback Model He models leadership delivery as recognize-then-correct: > "I would love to come up and say look Paul I've just visited three of your customers and you're really doing a great job job well done now let's go to your service" --- ## Communication Patterns ### Turn-Taking Comfort with Interruption Signals > "you cut me off anytime cuz no I want to hear this" — he explicitly invites interjection, suggesting a collaborative rather than monologue style (single instance; **low-confidence pattern**). ### Deferring to the Questioner While Extending Answers He often notes an answer may wander, then continues anyway: > "so that may be a long answer to that simple question" > "maybe I take this in a different direction but I don't know how you get to sales without..." ### Conversational Anecdote Retrieval He readily pulls decade-old specifics (the 1989 vanilla-envelope P&L story, Manager Development School) when prompted — evidence of experience-narrative as a primary explanatory mode. ### Stutter-Repetition at Emphasis Points Transcript shows repeated word-initial stutters clustered at emotionally weighted moments ("the the the ants", "is is is understanding"), suggesting emphasis through re-pronunciation rather than pauses. **Uncertainty:** this may partly reflect transcription artifacts. --- ## Stable Patterns vs. Isolated Moments | Category | Assessment | |---|---| | "Wildly" intensifier, "value" vocabulary, "job well done," "on time on schedule" | **Stable** — repeated across multiple topics | | Second-person customer role-play | **Stable** — used in retention, service, and field-visit discussions | | Self-correcting restatement | **Stable** — throughout the transcript | | Invitation to interrupt, "vanilla envelope" anecdote, dress-code anecdote | **Isolated moments** — single occurrences, not enough repetition to establish a pattern | --- ## Interviewer Delivery (Host — Paul Giannamore) - Uses **hypothetical role-play prompts**: > "let's let's do a little role playing okay I'm a branch manager my cancellation rates doubled over the last 6 months" - Summarizes and mirrors guest points before extending: > "you're saying that young growing companies would often times be better... focused on... retaining the customer" - Closes with light humor: > "17 years Rollins okay I didn't think you were that old" # Position Record: Mitch Smith on Scaling Service Businesses — #PestWorld2024 ## Video & Speakers - **Video:** "Scaling Service Businesses: Mitch Smith on Leadership and Customer Retention | #PestWorld2024" (Patomic TV) - **Paul Giannamore** — host, interviewer - **Mitch Smith** — President & COO (company name rendered unclear in transcript, "sa"); previously division president, Pacific Division, Rollins/Orkin; prior stints at TruGreen and Rollins (since 1989) --- ## Core Position: Service Delivery Before Growth - Smith's foundational claim: buyers evaluate a business starting with **customer satisfaction and value delivered**, not top-line growth. > "It's one thing to bring a new customer in, it's another thing to hold on to them." - **Growth is "the fun side"**, but a durable, profitable business requires balancing acquisition with **retention**. - He states plainly: **"I don't think you should be selling if you're not servicing properly. I think that's a waste of money."** - Reasoning: spending to acquire a customer who then churns (whether in 30 days, a year, or three years) is a poor investment; great service delivery means longevity. ### Giannamore's supporting observation - Giannamore notes most operators **cannot state their retention rates**, while Smith has tracked **monthly churn** for over a decade; industry conversation overindexes on acquisition cost and advertising. --- ## Sell–Service–Communicate Alignment - **Sales and service leadership must be "wildly connected"**: whoever trains the sales team should be a **service expert**, not just a pest-control expert. - The risk: a gap between what was **sold** and what is **delivered** on the initial service. - Value has two components: 1. **Time spent** on the account ("time and money") 2. **Communication of what was done** — especially when the decision-maker isn't home. The technician must "tell that story" in a way the customer can unpack later. - Recurring-service economics: solving the initial problem (e.g., mice) may happen in the first visit, but **"that's where we make the money"** — the return visits at 60/90 days. - Uncommunicated value → customer sees no reason to keep paying: > "If you don't communicate it Paul, the mice are gone, I'm paying you $100... where's the value coming from if I don't see it?" --- ## Key Metrics Smith Monitors | Metric | Role | |---|---| | **Cancellation rates** | "The ultimate scorecard"; leading indicator of quality | | **Reservice rates** | Compared **by route and by technician**; high reservices predict cancellations; may signal time-on-account, service quality, or training gaps | | **NPS scores** | Dropping NPS precedes reservice escalation and cancellations within **60–120 days** | | **On-time / on-schedule performance** | Avoid frustrating customers waiting in arrival windows | | **Service completion rates** | Whether scheduled customers are completed in-month; unhappy customers push services back | - On **NPS survey frequency**: no fixed rule; surveys after every service are acceptable, though multi-service customers (mosquito, termite, residential) might be capped at no sooner than every 60 days. He distinguishes **surveys from reviews** (some platforms restrict review requests). - Metrics are interconnected; he compares reservice rates **by technician** ("getting into the weeds" for root causes). --- ## Field Leadership Approach - **Both high- and low-performing branches need attention**; some just more urgently. - Branch managers should already see the same field metrics and know there's a problem before leadership visits. - Diagnostic method for rising cancellations: 1. Determine if it's a **handful of routes** or **systemic** across all routes 2. If specific specialists: examine NPS, punctuality, "peel back the layers" - **Field ride-alongs are mandatory**: he "rarely" visits a branch without going into the field with the branch manager/regional/service manager and specialists. - On field visits he: - Personally selects **recently treated homes** (last ~3 days) so no one can stage success - Inspects for webs, organic debris, wood stacked against the house, tree overhang ("a highway for rodents") - Checks whether the customer was advised of risk factors - Delivers a **"job well done"** — citing how meaningful recognition was to him as a young specialist — then observes service delivery - Knocks on doors to thank long-tenured customers and ask what the company does well and what needs improvement - He still does this today: **"That is where my heart is... I don't know how you run a company and stay in touch"** without it. ### Leadership style - Be **kind and respectful**; no value in "hitting with a hammer" — be **deliberate, educational, and exact about expectations**. - Understand how each leader best receives communication; senior leaders should be **in the field because "they are our brand."** --- ## Acquisition Perspective - **What excites him:** leadership quality — sitting across the table from a founder who "leads well," especially if staying. Metrics "start or end" the attraction; the people side determines what he "can do with this business." - **Anecdote** (recalled by Giannamore): on a closing day ~10 years ago, Smith commented he disliked how a branch manager was dressed. Smith confirms and explains: professionalism and pride in appearance signal passion and **put customers at ease at the door**; "that is where they get their perception of us." - **Chemistry with sellers:** - If the owner is **exiting**, personal alignment is *"not the most important factor"* - If the owner is **staying**, alignment is "pretty important... not mandatory," but better communication improves odds of success - **Founder sets the culture**: in due diligence, messages heard from field management should echo the founder's tone — consistency validates; discrepancies are revealing. He acknowledges this is a "gray area." --- ## P&L Mastery (Rollins Training) - Career arc: branch manager in 1989 with rudimentary P&L understanding (top line → bottom line); after Rollins acquired his company, **"I got a master's in P&L management."** - Calls Rollins the **"gold standard"** of the industry; attended his first **Manager Development School (MDS)** in 1989, which "left a mark." - Core skill: reading the P&L so precisely you can **visualize field operations** — e.g., high materials/supplies has only a handful of possible causes; fleet costs connect to routing discipline and on-time performance; premature vehicle replacement traces to poor routing. - TruGreen (then ServiceMaster) was also P&L-focused — common thread with Rollins. ### Branch manager expectations - Must know the P&L **"inside and out"** — revenue, direct service costs, labor, materials, insurance, liability — reviewed **monthly in detail**, with variance analysis (over/underspending, revenue underperformance). - Companies should share **full detail** with branch managers: summaries, general ledgers, fuel-card transactions. - Drill into layers: labor variance → overtime? fleet variance → fuel vs. tires? → connects to **route optimization**. - Accountability for teaching it sits with senior leadership: **"If I have to teach you, it's shame on me."** - Rollins ran formal **training programs** (MDS) before promotion to branch manager — Smith endorses this model. --- ## Qualifications & Unresolved Points Preserved - Smith repeatedly hedges: retention "looks different... we calculate it differently... that's a tough one to put your finger on." - He admits being "maybe not getting where you're trying to go" on one question and being "overly passionate"; describes the founder-culture connection as "kind of a gray area" and his own explanation as possibly "doing a poor job of describing that." - Chemistry with sellers: explicitly **conditional** on whether the seller stays or exits — not smoothed into a single rule. - Closing remark from Giannamore framing the session as "short" is conversational, not substantive. # Speaker Attribution Record — Video 01a168c8-2ac7-7e4f-974c-898ccdf72765 ## Video **Title:** Scaling Service Businesses: Mitch Smith on Leadership and Customer Retention | #PestWorld2024 ## Speakers & Roles ### Paul Giannamore — Creator / Host - Self-identified: *"hi I'm Paul jamore"* (transcript phonetic for Giannamore); hosts **Potomac TV** channel. - Conducts the interview; frames questions, references prior interviews and shared deal history. ### Mitch Smith — Guest / Interviewee - Identified by host as **President & COO of Aza** ("sa" in transcript; company name uncertain in transcript), after a long career at **True Green** and **Rollins/Orkin** (17 years; former Division President, Pacific Division, Rollins/Orkin). - Primary content contributor on service delivery, retention metrics, P&L management, and acquisitions. ### Unattributed cold-open voice - The opening lines ("you really need to to stay focused...") are a preview clip of Mitch Smith's remarks, repeated later in the interview; role: **guest (pre-roll teaser)**. ## Promotional Segments — Flagged - **Channel intro (Paul Giannamore):** promotion of Potomac TV, subscriber drive, upcoming **M&A master class** series (sell-side and buy-side), email distribution list sign-up link, and request for viewer comments. This is promotional channel housekeeping, not interview content. ## Referenced Sources & Third-Party Claims - **Rollins / Orkin** — referenced as Mitch Smith's former employer; characterized by Smith as "the gold standard in our industry"; Manager Development School (MDS, 1989) mentioned. - **True Green** — former employer; noted as formerly part of the **ServiceMaster** brand. - **Aza** (transcript: "sa") — Smith's current company as President/COO. - **PestWorld 2024** — conference referenced via title and remarks ("what you see here in pest world"). - No external published sources, studies, or documents are cited in the transcript. ## Third-Party Claims & Anecdotes - Smith recounts an anecdote (prompted by Giannamore) about a phone call on a closing day ~10 years ago regarding a branch manager's dress. - Smith describes his 1989 P&L training experience under Rollins; all such claims are speaker recollections, unverified. ## Comment Availability - Host explicitly **invites viewer comments**: *"feel free to put a comment below on the types of things you want to see."* No curated comment data was supplied. ## Uncertainty Notes - Company name "sa" / "Aza" is phonetically ambiguous in the transcript. - Guest surname "Smith" and role details come from host's on-screen introduction within the transcript. - No timestamps were available; segment boundaries inferred from content only. you really need to to stay focused it's fun growth is the fun side of the business right is the way I classify it but this longlasting business that you want to be profitable you really got to have a good balance and a good understanding of how you bring value to those customers and your ability to hang on to those customers let's break that down hi I'm Paul jamore I wanted to welcome our new subscribers to the channel you know historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential Commercial Services business owners but after the publication of the cide m&a master class last month my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests so Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the sell side as well as the buy side I intend to talk about the choice of process delving deep into m&a psychology uh as well as extensive buide practice approach and due diligence for those of you who have not subscribed you can click below and subscribe to the channel furthermore we've provided a link here in the description where you can get on our email distribution list and if you do that you'll receive an email right in your inbox with our latest Publications feel free to put a comment below on the types of things you want to see I mean this channel is largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us again thanks for joining us here at patomic TV Mitch it's great to have you back thank you it's good to be here when was the first interview was it 21 maybe was either 20 or 21 okay so you've come a long way still now you're president COO of sa after a long career at true greens and Rollins right correct Y and you know today one of the things I really wanted to to talk to you about is you know you'd been the division president for the Pacific Division of Rollins or orcon for many years and you were probably the most acquisit at least during that time period you were the most acquisitive DP I think for Orin You' just done a ton of deals my question for you is you know when you start to think about guys that are building their businesses right now what have you learned by doing all those Acquisitions and some learning you would have for folks as far as how to do it right and how to do it wrong I I think it's great question and having done a few deals over the years a few I would I would start with the how important it is to to build your foundation the right way I mean looking at the at the hundreds of deals I've looked at over the years and you know certainly more that didn't didn't meet the the specs right that you're looking for than than that did but but I couldn't over emphas ize the the value that comes from foundationally focusing on that the service delivery right it's one thing to bring a new customer in it's another thing to to hold on to them but as a as a buyer sitting in that seat um for me it start it always started with how satisfied those customers were and how much value were you delivering to those customers so for the simple answer is you really need to to stay focused it's fun growth is the fun side of the business right is the way I classify it but this long lasting business that you want to be profitable you really got to have a good balance and a good understanding of how you bring value to those customers and your ability to hang on to those customers let's break that down then I think it's a very very important thing you're saying so so how do you kind of how do you measure and manage that when you're thinking about the service delivery okay you know what are some things that you you should focus on to really build that Foundation let's say let's I'll give you an example you know I run a million dollar a year Pest Control business I've got maybe nine technicians um I'm trying to get customers in the door right I'm trying to spend a lot of money on marketing advertising and you know as you know that the growth is a fun stuff but like at the end of the day I got to pay my bills sure how do I balance all that and how do I you what is it about focusing on Service delivery how do I do that good good question and I think that's the answer is multiac to it but the reality is is understanding one of I maybe maybe the better way to say it is is understanding what drives value right CU it's super easy to when when somebody calls you and they've got you know mice in the pantry or ants you know wherever it's that's easy right we go out there we kill the the the ants or we you know we get rid of the mice um but that's value right you just paid for that in the first service or the second service but now what are you going to do for the next how many years to make sure that customer the the service that you deliver is equal to or greater than in value than the check they have to write so so how do you do that and you know is the is the followup and you cut me off anytime cuz no I want to hear this I'm a little overly passionate about this stuff so I I say it starts with making sure that when you bring the customer on and whoever is selling that customer on on the value of of doing doing business with company a that we're talking about or B is is the service you're going to deliver in the initial service is it the same service that got sold and that's I think that sounds really easy but we're talking about companies that you look at and and try to determine whether whether that company meets your your ticket or not making sure you're on the same page I would say is is absolutely where it starts and I don't know that everybody really gets that and I don't mean that anyway no that's an interesting point so give me an example of of where that breakdown might occur okay where the customer is being sold where there's a disconnect between what the customer believes they're buying versus what they're actually being sold okay so and and maybe you know one one way to answer that question or approach is that I feel strongly that your service leadership and sales leadership should should be wildly connected right if somebody's going to do service training in my sales room I want to make sure that they're a service expert and not only an expert in killing bugs but an expert in what our service team is going to deliver to that customer and and that's where I would draw the boundaries around what the picture I'm trying to paint in teaching a sales team how to set a customer up for success and simply meaning that what what you're going to tell them is exactly what you're going to experience when that service specialist shows up at your door so uh that that that might cover you know how long do we spend on what what's the what's the minimum expectation that I'm going to be at your house that's also a key value driver right when a customer gets us a a a service I mean two two big value points for them are are are what did you deliver and how do you help me understand that and if the if the decision maker isn't home how do I how do I communicate what just happened so that you see the value as the decision maker in your home or business right so you got to be able to to flip that bill with with value comes from or where does that value come from part of that value comes in how much time I spend because it's time and money and then the other part comes in the relay of what did I just do for you when we just talked about it I can get rid of your your mice and your pantry if I'm if I'm good and lucky I might do that in the first service I might find their entry point I might seal it up might treat that properly get the mice out of there but I come back in you know 60 or 90 days whatever your frequency is now that's that's where we make that's where we make the money right that's that's what it's all about it's and now we're talking about foundationally where I started with what is your service Foundation what do you really do do I go places that that a customer doesn't want to go I mean how much time do you spend in your in your attic if you've got an attic how many times do you get underneath your house if you live in a home with a crawl space they don't go there do we go there if they don't and we do that's a great opportunity to to deliver value to them but you do that now how do I get you to understand it if you're working and and your partner is at home doesn't really care about Pest Control they just home right now I got to figure out how do I get that to the decision maker at home and that comes through good transfer of what I did how do I tell that story and put it in a place where they can unpack it when they get home and but in I guess that miscommunication of value or not necessarily delivering what the customers expects you to deliver how does that negatively impact the business or how have you seen it negatively impact these businesses if if we don't do that yeah you're I mean obviously the ultimate report at least in my simplified mind or the way I look at it is is what what's your retention look like that and that that looks different right in in in in a lot of businesses we calculate it differently so that's a that's a tough one to to put your finger on but when you get into a customer base if I'm that million-dollar business I'm trying to grow my my business someday I might want to exit and we're talking about the value that that that this value proposition that comes with the service delivery um I I really just want you to sell it service it the same way communicate it and if you can't communicate it I know that's what you're what you're you're digging into um if you don't if you don't communicate it Paul the mice are gone I'm paying you let's just say $100 every time you come out here where's the value coming from if I don't see it if you can't communicate it with me whether whether that's digitally whether it's a piece of paper you know if but if you can't get it in front of me where where is the value why am I writing you that $100 check or having you withdraw that from my credit card or my bank account every 60 days or 90 days so you will wildly see that in your in your retention rate if you do it right retention is higher if you don't do it right and you're not you haven't found a way to deliver that message you will absolutely see it because customers won't see the value and they'll stop paying you speaking of retention when you were running the Pacific Division for for Orin were you more focused on new customer acquisition or were you more focused on retaining your current customers I'm sure there's a balance between the two but I'm just curious of where where you spent your time thinking both both aspects super important and and very much under the microscope but everything's come comes back to service and customer satisfaction in fact I I don't think you should be selling if you're not servicing properly I I think that's a waste of money so it's I would I would put it this way both important but it starts with with service and customer satisfaction customer retention before it goes to sales because you do want to make money on that sale that you make so you saying that young growing companies would often times be better have time better spent focused on on understanding um their retention rates how they're retaining the customer how they're servicing the customer and how they can keep those customers rather than I bring this up just because everyone's always focused on the next best the next customer right customer acquisition costs how do how do you Market how do you sell everyone walking around here is always asking questions about the next the greatest uh uh advertising thing that you can do I don't hear nearly as much conversation about like how do I keep the customers that I have yeah I think it's a fair question because you you see it all you see it all over the board when you're I mean you're dealing with with transactions right of companies exiting the space and buyers who want to acquire more customers I'm just thinking about the all the experiences of meeting with buyers and it's fascinating and maybe I take this in a different direction but I don't know how you get to sales without making sure we're locked down on the servicing side and maybe I'm not getting where you where you're trying to go but it's hard for me Paul to think about spending the dollar to to acquire you and then the threat of you leaving me in the next little bit whether that little bit is one year 30 days or or three years great service delivery means you're going be here for a long time that's the reason why I asked you this question because ever since I've known you for the last decade plus you've always been focused on retention rates yeah most people aren't I mean you ask most people in here they can't even tell you what their customer retention rates are sure you were constantly looking at monthly churn rates and and where are we going that's right and so I think for for somebody like you it's hard to believe but I think for a lot of folks they're always focused on how do I grow the Top Line um how do I get that next new customer and not so much how I retain customer and and I brought this up because you talked about like the service delivery and building the the fundamentals you know if we if we kind of build on to the fundamentals you've got Service delivery what are some other important key attributes for these younger guys growing these businesses that they should be focused on on on the service side well not necessarily on the service side so we've got the service delivery as a Cornerstone fundamental what are some other things that pop into your mind so I I it seems pretty simple in my mind but there's multiple aspects of of that Serv delivery right there I mean you got you sell it you service it you got to collect it right and and that's that's what we hope to do we hope to only service at one time right not have to come back for for for more um but if you if you think about how do you do that right it we we talked about it starts with making sure it was sold right and properly set up uh cancel cancellation rates are just one metric that are important right there it's kind of the ultimate scorecard I think right but now I'm going to start looking at reservice rates right and and do I have the right do I have the right recipe in in in each of the service applications that are being done outside your home inside your home and so we can look at those service we can we can look at those reservice rates and say wait a minute you're you're looking at a at a cancel here if you can't get these reserves under control and res services that might be a Time problem that I'm not spending enough time on an account it might be the service that I'm providing or you know might be somebody that's just not dedicated to our service or we haven't spent the time getting them trained right properly I can look at NPS rates right and and reviews and maybe be a little more pointed if I'm missing the boat here on on what you're looking for but all of that's all part of the package does that make sense 100% yeah I mean do you do you ever compare reservice rates by technician across the board AB absolutely okay well let's talk about that and what are some other key metrics that you tend to look at that inform you as to how Service delivery is going so probably the key drivers in there reservice rates for sure and if you can compare those by Route by by specialist and now you're really getting into the weeds and figuring out where the root causes are right and in some of your problems we I I mentioned The NPS scores that we look at right that customer feedback that's another great vehicle we know that if your NPS scores are dropping that we're going to see reservice rates are going to be escalating you're going to see cancellations right starting to appear that's going to happen 60 90 120 days you're going to see that in in a pretty short amount of time how often would you typically do an NPS survey per customer well I I don't I don't have a I think that your surveys could come out all the time like every service right um but I and and and maybe you know if you're serviceing the same customer for for mosquito and Termite and residential you may want to say okay I only want to get a survey you know every 60 days or no sooner than that and but but I also don't think there's a problem every time you get a service for doing a survey there's a difference between surveys and reviews right I don't know you want to ask for somebody and and and some of those platforms don't allow you to continue do that but as far as asking for surveys I I think that's wherever you want it to be and I don't think there's a problem with frequency being very really close you definitely want to pay attention to that because that's a wildly good indicator that I have a problem or we get it and we're delivering in exactly the way we want to deliver so service am I on time on schedule right looking at how how good if there's a a 2-hour window or a one or three or whatever you're doing in your company let's make sure that we deliver and and don't frustrate people by sitting home all day waiting for the the guy or gal that was supposed to be here 3 hours ago so am I on time on schedule do I keep my customers in the month if you're happy and I'm delivering value and you're scheduled for service every 60 days or 90 days you're going to take the service on a regular basis if you're not happy you're going to keep pushing me back so I'm going to look at I'm going to look at those service completion rates those need to be front and center no doubt cancellations are the leading indicator of how good or not good you are but NPS scores am I on am I on time on schedule that's telling me proactively if I'm going to have a problem but service completions if I've got 100 customers or 200 or 300 in that route at the start of that month how many of them did I get done and and then did I get them done on time schedule right and then do I have to go back and do it again you think about how connected those are and you were you were drawing you know putting together this process map they all they all have a piece in there that you should really pay attention to so I would imagine historically for you both in your current position as well as what you've done historically you spent a lot of time on the roads you would go out to branches yeah so irrespective of what company this is I would imagine you ran into branches that experienced some of these problems more so than others sure so what sort of conversations would you have with people a that's a great question and and this is the people business right so every everybody's different and I could get wildly distracted on on that topic because I think it's important that you understand how your leadership how they are best communicated with and and they understand how you like to be communicated with so I think that comes on the front end of establishing relationships and and and getting people comfortable with with communicating with each other but that's a that's a very complex question if you will I think that we should be kind and respectful right to we treat people like we want to be treated but if we really want them to be successful we have to be very deliberate and when you and I've known each other for a lot of years worked a lot together on a lot of deals if something doesn't go right I don't know that there's value in getting overly hyped up about it right it's got to be urgent same thing with this branch manager that we're talking to and if there's a service manager there but I also want you to listen feel respected and feel like okay this is my growth opportunity so I come in there and hit you hit you with a hammer you may not even know what's going on I don't see any value in that um I believe we should be educational very exact in the delivery of of where expectations are so that you know what a job well done looks like and then that's going to also tell me if if those that are responsible for that branch manager and their success and that Branch hitting its targets that's going to tell me what's going on it's going to give me an indicator anyway are we doing a good job supporting you as a as Management in the field or are we not and so I'm always going to have whoever that leader is with me when I'm when I'm going to go visit those branches so you go out to a branch let's say that cancellation cancellation rates have ticked up when you would go out his New York are you going out there to somewhat do a diagnostic to basically figure out what's going on or do you pretty much have a do you often times have a sense for what's going on before you even show up yeah well I think you see both right sometimes things do look good for for for reasons but there's and there's there is always opportunity for improvement right and if I've got if I've got six service specialists in that office like you know like we're talking about this million-dollar organization how many specialists that you need for that or if I've got 36 specialist this is a large operation I it's it's all it's all relative right to that so I maybe dig a little deeper in that question with me yeah I guess let's let's do a little role playing okay I'm a branch manager my cancellation rates doubled over the last 6 months yep um I don't seem to understand what's going on so I'm curious to how somebody like you would come out and deal with me and help diagnose this right yeah and I I don't know is that typical of what you would run into I mean did you or is that an outlier scenario I mean do you it's your branch managers often know what was going on or did you look at numbers and say hey man this isn't looking good I need to head out to Tulsa or whatever and and sit down with Paul sure well let me start by saying good high performing branches and low performing branches all need attention right some are just more more more uh urgent than others right your branches should be looking at at the same field metrics that that I'm looking at and they should know if there's a problem and and between their leader and that branch manager they generally know that that there's a problem and should be well prepared to talk about that but my visit is always if there's a problem in the branch I'm always going to address that while I'm there appropriately with their leader but I also think that it's wildly important that we as senior leaders are out in the field where the field represents I mean they are our brand right that service specialist so yes I'm going to I'm going to deal in this situation with your high cancellation rate I want to I want to peel back the layers and see what's going on is it is it a handful of routes that's causing it do you have a systemic problem across your whole business based on is this and based on the fact that we've seeing it we're seeing it across all routes um and and from there then we're going to go into where is that problem coming from right let's just say it's a handful of Specialists now I want to look at NPS scores I want to see are you does it start with are you on time on on schedule so we're just going to start peeling back the layers on wherever we find the problem but I I rarely will go to a branch and not go in the field with the branch manager the the regional the the service manager and go and go spend some time with with some of those service specialists I think it's wildly important and so tell me what does that mean when you go out in the field you're with service specialist what are you doing well there's two pieces to that I think it's really important cuz because the goal really should be I want to give you a job well done I want you to know that I know when I was a service specialist if my boss said Mitch great job what that meant to me I want to I want you to feel the same way so let's start by by just just knowing that my goal is is to give you a a job well done Paul so um but but I'm going to start by looking at the homes of few houses or businesses that you treated in the last 3 days and and I'm probably going to pick those right so that we're not no one's setting me up for Success not that anybody would do that but um so I want to go I want to go look at recently what you just did are there still webs right in the eaves or in the window seals um is there you know organic debris down in your window wells or you got wood stacked up against your house and if you do we got trees hanging on it right and it's a highway for rodents to get up on there and other insects right I want to I want to see how you're dealing with our customer that we spend a lot of money on and so we started this conversation today right so um so I think it's important that you go back and look at what's been done that allows us to be able to see is there's something that we need to stress with you to help Elevate in your day-to-day treatment of our customers and the best case scenario is finding no webs finding cuz it's natural for people to stack stuff against the house we're talking about organic matter or you know spare Building Material or a wood pile or whatever but have we told them that this is this is really could lead to a roding problem in your home or an problem or whatever it is I'd love to be able to come up now now I'm going to go see you I've just visited three of your homes in this case residential I would love to come up and say look Paul I've just visited three of your customers and you're really doing a great job job well done now let's go to your service I want to see how you deliver it to make sure that you're you're checking all the boxes in what you're doing today it also allows me another opportunity right to put my arm around you and say hey I thank you for doing what what's so important to our company and that's delivering value so that we can hang on to these customers that also provides opportunity for you cuz I want to grow another route I want to put on another service manager someday like to open up another office and I can't do that if I'm not in touch with you and your service delivery and how that's aligned with how we're trying to onboard new customers did you ever show up at any of the homes and talk to the customers say that again did you ever show up at the home and talk to the customer oh absolutely yeah we so on those particular field visits you would actually talk to customers we I mean I I believe we should always go to the door make sure and you know not everybody answers the door y but we do want them to know that their P control provider is on site and it's it's just amazing when a customer who's been with you for a long time it's it's a great opportunity to express gratitude for for them being with us so long and and even asking them questions which is fun for me about what what do what what do they think we do really well and what do they think we we really need to work on to bring more value to them and they're both good questions do you still do that today go out and talk to customers I do I I wish in in having responsibility for for the day-to-day operations of our company I wish I had more time to do that but I won't go to the field I do go to the field absolutely that that is where my heart is um and I'm not going to be in the field without going to a branch and without getting out and seeing our service specialist and and doing just exactly what I said I don't know how you run a company and stay in in touch with with what's really happening so that you can make good decisions in in looking forward in what you need to do to keep your company on track to grow your company and uh and and reach the goals that you have I just don't know how else you do it and and look I've been doing this a long time what fascinates me about our industry is what you see here in pest world my favorite place because of innovation and and opportunity and that the opportunity that Innovation provides for us in continuous Improvement to get to get better so but communicating with customers being out in the field when I get the chance to to travel I'm just not going to travel unless I have the opportunity to do that um that's my choice when you look at acquisition opportunities over the years you've done countless you know what are some of the things that excite you at a potential opportunity what are some things that you've looked at maybe historically and instantly said no this isn't for me so what's excites you and and and what repulses you right let's start with the fun stuff um which is what excites me that I mean we are in the people business like we mentioned earlier so it's all about leadership being able to have the opportunity to sit at the table in an acquisition with somebody who who leads well especially if they're staying but what if if they're not have they LED well which becomes very obvious right metrics tell you a big deal big part of that story and then that personal connection sitting across the table from each other that that that's where it starts with me the metrics if they're sexy and they look great and I really want to now I want to get to know you as the leader the founder who's responsible for that that's the that's the fun side the the attraction right starts there or it ends there right when you're looking at the metrics but getting into the people side of it is super cool and it tells you a lot about what what I can do with this business or what do I have to do to get this business in a place where I can try to take it to the next level whatever that next level is do you remember there was one deal maybe it was like 10 years ago you called me up on the closing day and everything was fine but you did make the comment you said I Paul I really don't like how the branch manager is dressed I do I think I know exactly what you're talking about so you do pay attention to that sort of stuff absolutely I mean you really are focused on the people so you made a comment about how you didn't like the branch manager was dressed back in those days what about that what about how those people dressed I get that seemed to irritate you well let me tell you what what what drives that is I want you I want what we do to be super important to you and I want you to be proud of it I'm super proud of what I've been doing the last 39 years and um I'm may be behind the behind the times in my dress but but you can't argue that I'm not passionate about what I do I want I I really want that manager to be passionate and proud of what they do and part of that is I want them to look the part they show up in front of a customer and they knock on the door like like I believe we should be doing I want them to look professional and come and and start that way when the customer opens the door want to put them at ease and I think there's I think there's a lot to be said with that I think it expresses how you feel about the business 100% agree with you yeah so I I wasn't surprised when you made that comment well yeah it is what it is and and so that that is there there is a bar there and I and I do think there's an absolute connection between that and we all we all see our brand a certain way but sitting in the corporate office that's not our brand right what we're talking about is is how people how they that's where they get their perception of us these good folks are they are they not good folks are they easy to do business with are they not that's why I think it's important that we look appropriate on the doors and what we deliver service so you were talking about people so when you're looking at acquisition targets I mean how important is the chemistry between you and like the owner of the company or how that person presents him or herself I think it it makes it depends how that impacts or has or hasn't impacted the business if you don't see eye to eye with me I just think that's people right because we're all different it's part of the beauty of of life especially in our industry so I would love it if we saw eye to eye every time we're you know looking at a a potential um seller and and and and bringing that business on board but it it's not always the case so and and it's it's not the most certainly not the most important factor if somebody is exiting if they're staying we do it's pretty important that we get along it's not it's not mandatory but we but but yeah there's value in that and I think that obviously the better the communication in our relationship the the better chance we have of being successful and if you think about it when I was talking about you understanding how I like to be communicated and vice versa and I would say it's Pro it's wildly more important for me if I'm if I'm the leader to understand how you like to be communicated with and that comes through you know you can you can do personality tests for that or you can just spend some time with that person right and getting to know them and and trying to really focus on on how they like that communication um I I think that's just vital but you to answer your question if you're staying we need to be in alignment as a company and as as leadership I think to make that as successful as possible and but it doesn't really really matter if we can communicate well and be respectful of each other and treat people like human beings does that make sense it makes sense and maybe chemistry res in the right question I guess the the path I want to go down on is how important you think the founder is that you know somebody who founds a business who's operating the business in actually setting the culture of the organization and can you pick up cues based on how that individual is as to what you might find below the surface in the actual business uh I I think so and and that's probably telling of how how much conversation and and what kind of questions are you asking that person and getting to know them as an owner but I think you could definitely connect you could connect I believe talking to our management team in the field if I'm doing my job conceptually you should be hearing the same things that you're hearing from me and and maybe in the same tone even if if you can grasp that I'm I'm probably doing a poor job of describing that I can I can grasp that but I think you'll see those similarities and so same thing if I'm looking at a potential seller and trying to get to know them I I it becomes easier when now I'm you're looking underneath the hood of that business and you you you you've graduated onto that next phase maybe in this due diligence process you'll start to see the connection between ah that makes sense based on my understanding and and and our relationship I know that's kind of a gray area but it's but it's just interesting you spent what 13 years at Rollins uh 17 to 17 years Rollins okay I didn't think you were that old um what were some of the I mean obviously it's a phenomenal Organization for sure what are some of the most important things you learned there when I when I started with Rollins was 1989 and they acquired the company I was I was a new branch manager I've been doing that for about a year and let me tell you this I used to get a profit and loss statement every month from that company I would open that big vanilla envelope and I'd look at thep top which was the revenue how does that compare to the budget the expenses were super complicated then I go to the but so I just go from the top of that to the bottom of that and look did I make the money that the company expected me to make the money that month that was how educated I was in p&l management when Rollins acquired Us in 1989 I got a masters in p&l management and so if I think about takeaways and from from a from and Rollins I they I really look at them as the gold standard in our industry they been around a long time amazing brand well-led I really learned how to read a a profit and loss statement and how to and if you do that right in in that education system that exists in that company you can pretty much understand what's going on in those branch offices that we're talking about if my material and supplies are too high you know there's there's only a handful of reasons why that could exist somebody that understands that and teaching you that wow that mentorship is amazing we're talking about you know we started talking about sales and connecting those with service and the return on investment am I inline am I out of line if you don't understand the profit and loss statement and into a depth that you can you can visualize what's going on in the field by reading this document whether it's a fleet issue or a material and Supply issue or maybe it's in labor that's invaluable I I you could spend a whole day talking about interpreting that so you you ask me for maybe some takeaways from there it started for me with understanding the profit loss statement in in great detail and and look I don't think it's a secret they spend a lot of time around that profit and loss statement but then you connect that to the to the level of service that's being provided because it certainly is reserves are going to cause you to to use more product cancellations right they have an impact if you're not routing properly and showing up on time on schedule because you're not doing that you're going to see that in Fleet costs and eventually it's in maintenance and it's in repairs and it's replacing vehic prematurely that's probably if I think about all the all the levers that get pulled in running a a pest control company and not just a just just a branch but running something internationally I don't know how you I don't even know how you start without without a an exact understanding of that statement you're talking about going out and visiting branches you darn sure shouldn't do that we obviously going to look at metrics but but financial performance compared to how we wanted that office to perform that also tells you a whole you know a whole another narrative so hey when you when you ask this question that comes top of mind to me because they were Masters in teaching me how to connect that profit and loss statement to to what's going on in the field and and how is our brand being represented you've never really gotten that sort of training right you were at True Green prior right true green in between the two stints with with Rollins yes and and look they the the at the time that they were all part of the service service master brand right and yeah they they were very focused as well on a profit and loss statement so I I think I see that in common specifically with Rollins that's where the education education started with me is started from there and and tying that to service delivery and sales performance and the care of you know your vehicles and your buildings and it tells a story if you've got a branch manager I mean what how much knowledge of a panl should an actual BR a branch manager he's got 20 technicians what should that branch manager know I mean how in depth should a branch manager understand a p&l I would expect you to know it inside and out I want you to be so basically my Revenue my direct costs of service service my labor my material everything yep Insurance all the way down the line what's going on with insurance and liability yep what every facet of that you should be reviewing that every month in in detail and if there's a variance that variance could be I could be under spending I could be outrunning my Revenue I could be overspending I could be underperforming in my Revenue you need to understand that as a branch manager because you're responsible for performing and and meeting those those uh those goals so you should know that better than I do if I understand the p&l I already know pretty much what's going on in your branch I obviously want you to know that better than I do and I want you to be able to answer the detailed questions around why why are fuel prices higher than they should be right or material and Supply costs or or labor you know where's that coming from you absolutely need to understand that we need to jump on it when when when your your accounting is closed for the month right we need to jump on it understand it so we have more opportunity this month to right siiz whatever wherever that problem is so that may be a long answer to that simple question but question no it answers a question because the you know that question comes up all the time how much should branch managers really know about the p&l and if you're not sharing a p&l that is in detail right you a summary of that p&l and then all the detail right and the general ledgers anything that that you have that supports that right your fuel card transactions they need to be able to see they need to be able to see all of that and connect gez right we talk about Fleet or M&S or or payroll right but but the story is is is in layers below that I need to be able to get to the detail and if you're spending too much in service labor is that an over time issue is it you know is something going on that shouldn't be going on like what's what's causing it and so same thing with Fleet is it coming from fuel is it's coming from tires is it and and then what's connected to that well route optimization is connected to that right and so and and our disciplines in route optimization it's just it it's almost endless short answer is I want you to know your p&l yeah yeah I don't want to I I really and if I if I have to teach you it's shame on me because I'm not doing my job my job is to present you with the with the tools to be successful and then to support you and not just support you but but learn from you so are there you know from a p&l management perspective like Rollins for example then they would put managers through training programs to understand all that before you become a branch manager that's right go and I mean and it and it makes total sense right we're trying to set you up for success and and you mentioned Rollins they they do an amazing job of that I I did my first MDS manager development school back in 1989 with those folks and it it left a mark on me you know ever since then right of of how important that is wellist MIT I know this was a short session today but I appreciate you popping back in here absolutely anytime thanks for having me absolutely cheers