A Pest World 2024 recap episode featuring interviews with financial advisor Nick Bartolo and pest control business owners Daniel and Josh Brady. Topics include tax-saving and wealth management strategies for business owners after a sale, an M&A market update with discussion of private equity rollups and exits, disruption in door-to-door sales, and the Bradys' experience growing Anchor Pest Services—including monthly billing, efficient operations, and applying advisory insights. Part of the "Off The Record" interview series hosted by Paul Giannamore, an M&A advisor in pest control and route-based service industries. # Channel Identity Observations — Video: "Pest World Recap Turns Variety Show: Market Trends & Business Wins" ## Explicit Self-Description by the Creator - **Channel name and host**: The host identifies himself as "Paul jamore" (likely Paul Giannamore, transcribed imperfectly) and names the channel "pomac TV" / "pic TV" (transcription variants): > "hi I'm Paul jamore I want to welcome our new subscribers to the channel... historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential and Commercial Services business owners" - **Stated scope**: The channel's claimed focus is business and operational content for **residential and commercial services business owners**. - **Announced expansion into M&A education**: Following the "cide m&a master class" publication, the host states: > "my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests so Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the sell side as well as the Buy side" Planned topics named: choice of process, M&A psychology, buy-side practice approach, and due diligence. - **Viewer-driven positioning claim**: > "this channel is Lar largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us" - **Audience-soliciting CTAs**: Subscribe prompt, email distribution list link in description, and comment solicitation for content requests. ## Observable Presentation Evidence ### Intended Audience - **Pest control business owners (PCOs)** are the demonstrated core audience — content addresses "pest control owners," "owners who are considering selling," and "a lot of owners" at the Pest World conference. - Sub-segments demonstrated: owners considering **selling their businesses**, post-sale owners needing **income replacement and tax planning**, and **door-to-door pest control operators** building businesses. - Guests include a finance/CPA professional ("Nick") serving the pest control industry, and two owner-operators of a ~$4.5M New England pest control company. ### Demonstrated Content Scope - **M&A market commentary**: Deal activity, valuation multiples, strategic acquirers (Rollins, Rentokil, Anticimex), private equity rollups, and a specific closed transaction ("we just closed a transaction it was a PC2 top 100 Company 2 weeks ago"). - **Tax and wealth management education**: Pre-sale, sale, and post-sale tax phases; private loan funds; ordinary income tax reduction strategies. - **Operational business advice**: Monthly billing, route density, door-to-door economics, capitalization of acquisition costs. - **Industry event coverage**: On-site recap format at "Pest World," self-described as "the morning after show." ### Format and Tone - **Interview/conversation format** with humor and casual banter (jokes about "the Mexican," subtitles technology, honeymoon stories), explicitly acknowledged by the host: > "this is the last show of pest World which has turned into somewhat of a variety show" - **Unscripted, live-feel production**: unplanned guest call-ups ("come on up... this is a terrible idea"), a host departing for the airport mid-show. ### Evidence of Perceived Value by Viewers (stated by guests, not the creator) - A guest attributes business outcomes to the channel's advice: > "we're at least a million dollars richer because of what you guys have said... we switched to monthly billing 40% increase in our rates" - Guests describe the channel as an **educational resource**: requests to compile a "repository of all the books" mentioned across episodes of "the buzz" and "pomac TV." ## Claims vs. Demonstrated Patterns — Distinction | Creator Claim | Demonstrated in Material | |---|---| | Channel focused on "business and operational information and interviews" for service business owners | Confirmed: M&A, tax, operations interviews dominate the transcript | | New M&A master class series planned | Announced only; not demonstrated in this video | | Channel "driven by you the viewer" | Partially supported: guest content requests and audience-driven segments appear | ## Affiliated Entities Observed - **"Pest Control M&A / pomac TV"** (channel), **Dylan** (co-host/producer), **"the Mexican"** (recurring on-air personality referenced), **Nick / Essential Partners** (guest financial services firm: "what we're doing at essential Partners is we're investing in private loan funds"). # Delivery Observation: "Pest World Recap Turns Variety Show" ## Overall Format - **Multi-segment, semi-improvised recap show** filmed on-site at a conference ("Pest World"), with a fixed host (Paul) interviewing a guest (Nick), then bringing unplanned audience members on camera. - Opens with a **scripted channel intro** (subscriber welcome, M&A master class announcement), then shifts abruptly to casual banter: *"all right Nick you're back on the show... how you holding up"*, and later *"this is a terrible idea"* as guests are pulled up on stage. ## Tone - **Conversational and jokey**, especially early — banter about hangovers and tailored suits: *"I have the DTs from the bar last night cuz I don't drink anymore"*, and *"the Nick's show... let's see what you can do."* - The host repeatedly **flags the tonal shift**: *"not used to this Nick you having jokes... can we just talk about tax or something"* and *"this is the last show of pest World which has turned into somewhat of a variety show."* - Self-deprecating and fatigue-referencing admissions from the guest: *"I'm on like 4 hours of sleep this morning."* ## Recurring Phrases & Verbal Habits - **"I would say"** — Nick's hedging lead-in, appearing repeatedly: *"I would say you know look we're currently working on 16 live transactions"*, *"I would say probably by the end of 25..."*, *"I would argue that atcx has attempted to do that."* - **"I mean" / "you know"** — extremely frequent discourse markers throughout both speakers. - **"Look,"** as a pivot word: *"I mean look there was obviously always a lot of questions"*, *"look we're currently working on..."* (uncertain whether intentional; frequency suggests habitual). - Nick's repeated **"I think" / "I just think"**: *"I think they're going to do it"*, *"so I I just think the era is here now."* - Host's **recap-and-handoff questioning**: *"so what do you got planned for us"*, *"what else you got on here on your list"*, *"give me one example."* ## Teaching / Explanatory Habits - **Question → plain-language definition → concrete number example** pattern. E.g., private loan funds: defines the concept (*"so what's a private loan"*), then works through a $100M deal: *"they take around 60 million from the private Equity Fund and then they go out and they borrow $40 million."* - **Hypothetical second-person scenarios**: *"Nick you own a door-to-door company you're doing 100 million in Revenue I go out and I say Nick I'm going to buy 49% of your business"* — role-playing the deal structure aloud. - **Simple arithmetic walk-throughs**: *"I spent a 100 bucks on door to door today... I'm going to expense it on my p&l over four years so 25 bucks a year right."* - Nick explicitly **distinguishes himself from expectations**: *"a lot of folks then assume that I'm a tax guy and so I am a CPA but I don't prepare taxes."* - Host uses a **labeling device** for frameworks: *"here's the decision tree looks something like this"*, *"there's a spectrum... we're going to call this show Spectrum."* ## Uncertainty & Hedging - Nick **explicitly labels speculation**: *"this is just conjecture on my part"*, *"I'm no Nostradamus"*, *"I'm not sitting up here on stage saying renil will do this."* - He declines detail on proprietary methods: *"a lot of those things are proprietary... so I typically don't get into that."* ## Storytelling & Anecdotes - Both speakers lean on **named, specific anecdotes** as evidence: the Aptive/JP Morgan deal, the Eric Ry Miller story (*"Eric Ry Miller said Paul I like these guys... I'm out of here"*), and *"I remember sitting at Cairo years ago... I remember exactly where we were sitting."* - Guests (the brothers) also deliver anecdotal proof: *"we switched to monthly billing 40% increase in our rates no cancellation rate."* ## Interview Dynamics - Host **teases and spot-tests the guest**: *"you always get which is typically what's going on in the market"*, *"so like what do you actually do."* - Host **praises guests publicly with specific claims**: *"I would argue live on the air that... the fundamentals is probably the best in New England."* - Frequent **interruptions, overlapping laughter, and unfinished sentences** mark this as lightly produced: *"we'll get to the honeymoon um yeah I mean it's a good question."* ## Isolated Moments vs. Stable Patterns - **Stable patterns (high repetition)**: hedging lead-ins ("I would say," "I think"), question-driven interviews, concrete numeric examples, casual discourse markers. - **Isolated moments**: the channel-intro monologue (only scripted segment), the honeymoon/Puerto Rico digression, the "Mexican subtitles" jokes — these do not recur enough to establish a pattern beyond general banter. # Observation Document: Pest World Recap Turns Variety Show ## Participants - **Paul Giannamore** (identified as "Paul jamore" in transcript) — host, PCO M&A specialist - **Nick** — CPA/investment advisor focused on pest control (at "Essential Partners" per transcript) - **Brothers/business owners** (one newly married, honeymoon in Puerto Rico; "Josh" — operations lead; first brother unnamed in transcript) - Brief mention of others: Dylan, Jared, Kyle, Matt Rogers, Fat Pat, Matt Brill, Ryan Clatterb(a)u, Eric Ry Miller --- ## Channel / Housekeeping (Paul Giannamore) - PCO TV historically focused on business/operational content for residential & commercial services owners; after the CIDE M&A master class, LinkedIn requests surged, so Paul and Dylan will film more M&A master classes (sell-side and buy-side). - Viewer-driven channel; asks for comments and email signups. ## M&A Market Update (Nick) ### Current activity - **"Particularly robust"** M&A market; working on **16 live transactions** — greater than typical. - Corrected himself: "pipelines are extended" means a **backlog of deals waiting to go to market** (attributed his imprecision to 4 hours of sleep). ### Strategic buyers - Strategics are **relatively slow**: Rentokil (transcript: "Ren kill"/"renil") expected to hit its £250M acquisition spend, more in rest-of-world than US; Rollins continuing deals; Anticis (transcript: "anti-six"/"atcx"/"antix") relatively slow, with open question of a public offering next year. - **Aptive deal** (co-advised with JP Morgan) closed **September 30**; originally engaged in **2022**, multi-year iterative process. Paul added: David Royce said he's "out of pest for good" and Paul believes him this time. - Strategics **will bend returns for high-priority targets** but not compete for run-of-the-mill companies: closed an unannounced PCO Top 100 deal two weeks prior that Nick expected to be a PE deal. ### Multiples & strategic conservatism - Multiples spiked in 2021, peaked 2022, stayed elevated, fell, and have been **"pretty consistent" since 2023**. - Nick rejected the idea that strategics are too conservative: they did many deals 2017–2021 and are in a **"period of digestion"** (integration, rationalization, harmonizing systems). Rentokil digesting Terminix; Anticis attempting it in North America; **Rollins best positioned of the three** for creative add-ons, building independent brands business. - **Paul's counterpoint**: Rollins trades ~30–35x EV/EBITDA while buying at 10–12x; with cost cuts and density they could pay more and still be accretive — "why not be greedy." - **Nick on accretion/dilution**: that analysis mattered more 10–15 years ago when public/private multiple disparity was larger; now buying at 25x while trading at 35x is accretive but may still yield poor IRRs (e.g., ~4%). - Forecast: **~$600–700M in acquisitions closing in next 180 days**. ### PE-backed rollup exits - Companies mentioned (Greenix, Anticis, Pesco) are "ready to go at any time" — but Nick flagged this as **conjecture on his part**. - Pesco still "early innings" on integration despite major strides. - Prediction: **one, two, or a few of those exits by end of 2025**. ## Door-to-Door Thesis (Paul & Nick) ### Predicted shift - Paul predicts big players (Rollins, Rentokil/Terminix — transcript "ncx") will **do door-to-door themselves**, possibly $50–100M/year in revenue via doors within a couple years. - Motivations: acquisition multiples have risen across the board; door-to-door deals historically at 70 cents on the dollar now transacting at 12–15x EBITDA; but buying 3–4-year-old businesses buys **seasoned accounts, not capabilities** — hence "have we been thinking about this wrong?" ### Obstacles to strategics doing D2D 1. **Fear of bad reviews** from door-knocking. 2. **P&L expense treatment**: selling a D2D account is a charge on the P&L. Rollins now **capitalizes D2D expenses over ~2 years**; some of Nick's clients capitalize over **4 years**; debate exists over proper duration and customer lifetime. ### Minority-stake structuring idea (Nick & Paul) - A strategic could buy **49% of a D2D business** with consent rights, control, and a **call option on remaining equity** (target may or may not get a put). - Benefits: minority interest **not consolidated** on P&L; control where D2D expenses run; later consolidate when optics favorable. Nick recalls discussing this years ago with a public-company CEO — "the era is here now." - New leadership cited: new CEOs at Anticis, Rentokil North America, and Jerry at Rollins — willing to try things predecessors haven't. - Paul's caveat: throws in "huge risk factors" for existing players; jury still out on impact — no immediate threat to existing D2D operators. ### Guest owner's perspective (first brother) - Believes Rollins acquired Fox to regain door-to-door capabilities ("trying to go back to some of their Heritage"); his family sold with Eclipse in the early 2000s to Orkin. - Asked whether bigger players pulling D2D in-house will change exit options for younger owners in 5–10 years — question left **unresolved**. - Paul's response: acquisitions "so damn expensive" prompted renewed D2D interest; the old summer-sales model was a "party" that didn't build real businesses, but newer operators (like the guests) are building "long-term sustainable income producing assets." Door-to-door companies sit on a **spectrum** from "dumpster fires" to well-run businesses. - Compensation-culture obstacle: an Orkin tech at $60K/year next to a D2D rep making $300K/year creates internal problems — solved, Paul argues, by the separate/minority-stake structure. - Eric Ry Miller (ex-COO Rentokil NA, left two weeks prior) historically refused D2D ("I'm not interested... I'm out of here") — his departure signals "a new era." Paul emphasized he's **not predicting Rentokil will do it**, only that conditions now permit it. ## Tax & Post-Sale Income Strategies (Nick) ### Nick's role - CPA who **does not prepare taxes**; focus is investments across three phases: pre-sale, during sale, reducing ordinary income taxes after sale. Prefers defining "millions of dollars of value" via taxes rather than promising uncertain investment returns. ### Private loan funds - Clients invest in funds managed by large multi-hundred-billion-dollar managers (names Blackstone/BlackRock as examples but says he doesn't use those two). - Mechanics: PE buys $100M business with ~$60M equity + $40M borrowed from private/direct lending funds. - Portfolio of PE-backed sponsor loans currently yielding **~10%**; **floating rate** (fed funds 4.75% + spread); a 1% Fed cut → ~9%. - Risk framing: **first in capital structure**, ~40% loan-to-value — the $100M valuation would have to fall to ~$40M before losses arise. ### Equity markets & taxes - Global equity dividend yield ~2% — low current income; advantage is **capital gains rates** when selling to fund lifestyle. - Top marginal ordinary rate 37%; plus state (Arizona ~2.5%, transcript "25%"; Florida zero; California 13.3%) — often **over 40%** on investment income. - Proprietary investment strategies reduce ordinary income: **$4M deployed → ~$1M ordinary income offset** → at 40% rate, ~$400K/year cash tax savings, i.e., a ~10% return from tax savings alone before investment returns. Details withheld as proprietary. - For pre-sale owners with business income: "able to do a bit," but effect scales with capital deployed; most PCOs reinvest in the business (which he endorses), limiting deployment. ## Guest Business Case Study (the brothers) ### Origin - Family D2D heritage (father, brother sold in early 2000s); mother urged them to sell pest control. Worked for Jared and Kyle ("the Borgs"/Eclipse businesses), running teams in Chicago and Virginia; participated in tech/ops meetings, not just sales. Jared and Kyle told them to start their own company. - Started in the Northeast (brother's wife's home region); one sold, Josh serviced; two-person operation for 2 years; COVID halted D2D in Massachusetts ("super illegal"); rebuilt teams post-COVID. ### Practices cited - **Monthly billing switch**: 40% rate increase, no cancellation impact, steady predictable revenue — advice attributed to Paul and his clients. - "Do the opposite of everything Fat Pat told you" — guest confirmed "most of it." - Motto: get customers, try to cancel them in first 30 days; keep willing customers forever; don't let sales guys dictate service areas. - **Deliberate growth cap**: ~50% year-over-year, avoiding 200–400% growth as "expensive" and letting "crap in the door"; turn away chunky non-recurring add-on services; keep margins high. - Fundamentals (Josh): route density — average tech drives **<20 miles/day, $2,000+/day, 12 preloaded stops**; production pay; bulk annual drum purchasing; investigate any tech driving >50 miles/day. - Plans: lawn signs on single streets same-day; referred by Paul to Matt Brill and Ryan Clatterb(a)u as "masters of lawn signs." - Secret sauce: guests **don't claim to know one** — "we just do pest control... just do it right." Paul calls their fundamentals "probably the best in New England" (not size — ~$4.5M revenue); plans a winter diagnostic to identify what differentiates them. - Guest claims to be **"at least a million dollars richer"** in 6 years from advice received via Paul's ecosystem — qualified by Paul's prompt ("I'm hoping you're more than a million dollars richer"), guest sticking to "that's just right now." - Learning approach: leverage DEP/department-head relationships; books recommended on the show (e.g., "Thinking Fast and Slow"); guest asked Paul to run AI over all transcripts to compile a book repository. ### Personal asides - August 2 wedding; honeymoon in Puerto Rico during Hurricane Ernesto — stuck in resort, turned down "the Mexican's" offer to boat them to Vieques and stay at his place ("the marriage hadn't melded yet"). Wife's verdict on "the Mexican": "he's crazy." ## Unresolved / Qualifications Preserved - Strategics vs PE competitiveness: "yes and no" — only for high-priority targets. - Rollup exits timing: explicitly labeled conjecture. - Impact of strategics entering D2D on small operators: "the jury's kind of out" — uncertain, no immediate threat. - Nick's fatigue (4 hours sleep) self-noted as affecting articulation. - Anticis public offering next year: posed only as a question. # Speaker Attribution & Provenance Record **Video:** Pest World Recap Turns Variety Show: Market Trends & Business Wins **Video ID:** `01a168c8-2a0a-7137-9bc2-d67628551f2a` ## Identified Speakers & Roles ### Paul Giannamore — Creator / Host - Self-identified: "hi I'm Paul jamore [Giannamore]" welcoming subscribers to the channel (referred to as "pomac TV" / "pic TV" in transcript). - Hosts the interview, asks market-update questions, delivers channel intro segment. - Identified by guests as affiliated with "pomac" and referenced regarding past M&A work (e.g., "when we took the borgs businesses to Market"). ### Nick — Guest (Finance / Tax & Investment Advisor) - Returns guest, "back on the show... a year after Hawaii." - Self-described role: focuses on the pest control industry, helping owners save on taxes and maximize post-sale investment returns; a CPA who does not prepare taxes; associated with **Essential Partners** ("what we're doing at essential Partners"). - Provides the M&A market update and private loan fund / tax-strategy discussion. ### Dylan — Creator-side / Channel Team Member - Referenced but not clearly speaking in transcript; Paul states "Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes." - Mentioned by guests ("talking to Dylan earlier," "Dylan's test toosa is for sale" — a joke exchange). ### Unnamed Guest #1 (first "come on up" segment) — Guest / Door-to-Door Pest Control Business Owner - Comments on Rollins' acquisition of Fox as a door-to-door capability play; notes his family "sold with Eclipse back in the early 2000s for Orkin." - Asks about exit-strategy implications for younger operators. ### Guest Owner (sales brother, unnamed in transcript) — Guest / Pest Control Business Owner - Brother duo business in the Northeast; recounts family history in door-to-door sales, working with Jared and Kyle, sleeping in their boardroom, founding their company (~$4.5M revenue), honeymoon in Puerto Rico during Hurricane Ernesto (married August 2). - Claims "at least a million dollars richer" from advice received via the channel; describes switch to monthly billing with 40% rate increase. ### Josh — Guest / Operations Lead (Brother) - Joins late in the show; runs all operations; describes route density (~20 miles/day, $2,000+/day per tech), monthly billing, bulk purchasing, planned lawn signs. ## Referenced Third Parties & Named Individuals (not speaking) - **Companies:** Rollins, Rentokil (Terminix), Anticimix/Antix, Aptive (deal closed Sept 30, co-advised with JP Morgan), Pesco, Greenix, Fox Pest Control, Eclipse, Orkin, Home Team, Cairo - **People:** David Royce, Eric Ry Miller (ex-COO Rentokil North America), Jerry, Jared and Kyle (former employers), Matt Rogers, Matt Brill and Ryan Clatterbush (lawn sign operators), Rob Greer, Patrick/Cameron (fractional finance contacts), "The Mexican," "Fat Pat" ## Promotional Segments — Flagged - **Channel intro/outro:** Paul's subscriber welcome, promotion of upcoming **M&A master classes** (sell-side and buy-side), **subscription call-to-action**, **email distribution list signup** ("link here in the description"), and comment solicitation. - **Essential Partners promotion:** Nick describes his firm's private loan fund investments and proprietary tax-reduction strategies for sellers — a service promotion embedded in the discussion. ## Referenced Sources - Books mentioned: *Thinking Fast and Slow* (Kahneman), *Fluke* (via Rob Greer reference). - Prior publications: "cide m&a master class" (published last month, per Paul). - No formal citations, studies, or external documents cited. ## Provenance & Availability Notes - **Comment availability:** Explicitly solicited — "feel free to put a comment below"; guests also invited viewers to "email your questions in." - **Confidentiality limits:** Nick declines to name an unannounced acquirer ("hasn't been announced yet so I can't say the name of the company") and withholds proprietary tax-strategy details ("a lot of those things are proprietary"). - **Speculation flagged as such by speakers:** Nick labels his door-to-door exit predictions "just conjecture on my part." - **No curated metadata supplied** beyond title and transcript; roles inferred solely from transcript content. I'm no Nostradamus so we talk to you guys where we see a little bit what's coming down the pipeline and then we make adjustments and pivots accordingly and like we we're at least a million dollars richer because of what you guys have said it's like awesome so and that's just right now I'm hoping you're more than a million dollar richer oh I'm just saying where we're at right now 6 years in like we're at least a million dollars bigger and further and profitable hi I'm Paul jamore I want to welcome our new subscribers to the channel you know historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential and Commercial Services business owners but after the publication of the cide m&a master class last month my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests so Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the sell side as well as the Buy side I intend to talk about the choice of process delving deep into m&a psychology uh as well as extensive buy side practice approach and due diligence for those of you who have not subscribed you can click below and subscribe to the channel furthermore we've provided a link here in the description where you can get on our email distribution list and if you do that you'll receive an email right in your inbox with our latest Publications feel free to put a comment below on the types of things you want to see I mean this channel is Lar largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us again thanks for joining us here at pic TV all right Nick you're back on the show we're yeah we're here you know year a year after Hawaii um and been having a lot of great conversations with all the PCOS the OWN here at a p world so it's been a lot of fun how you holding up you know this is kind of the morning after show right I'm it is off to the airport here in about 45 minutes um the tailored suits I have the DTs from the bar last night cuz I don't drink anymore and now I did but uh coming up this is your show this morning this is the Nick's show let's see I want to see I want I want the audience to see what you can do so what do you got planned for us so I thought it could be a good idea if we just kind of went through maybe some of the conversations recapping what we've talked about F about with folks over this week are you sure you want to recap what I talked about um yeah I think that would actually be quite fascinating it would be fascinating it had nothing to do with business all week but I mean the one thing that that I heard from a lot of owners though is that they heard pomac is developing a technology that could actually allow the Mexican to wear subtitles across his chest like streaming as he spoke is that true true that is uh that's aspirational I'd love to yes look at Nick the finance guy's got a couple of jokes out here this morning I like it no the other one the other one that I did hear though too is they were wondering if Dylan's test toosa is for sale at a certain price have you heard that I didn't hear that either no I did not this is uh not used to this Nick you having jokes this is like can we just talk about tax or something fat pad had a book of questions you're going to have a book of jokes all right give it to me but you know one question that I did get a lot and um it's it's funny because we're you know talk all the time we talk about private Equity talk about Investments talk about the business but people are looking at me and they're like Nick so like what do you actually do that is a good question actually tell us what do you do so basically I focus on the pest control industry on helping owners save money on taxes and then maximize their Returns on investments after the sale okay is it saving money on taxes only when they sell or can you save them money right now when they're not selling yeah it's it's a Continuum so it's really uh bifurcated among three different phases pre-sale during the sale and then reducing ordinary income taxes after the sale and so a lot of folks then assume that I'm a tax guy and so I am a CPA but I don't prepare taxes really the focus is on investments but I just def I just find that it's much easier to Define you know millions of dollars of value when you're talking about taxes than it is to promise you know investment returns that can be uncertain and often times you know folks overpromise so you know so I get I got that question a lot I hear you got the question a lot about that you always get which is typically what's going on in the market yeah I mean look there was obviously always a lot of questions about what's going on in the m&a market I mean it's it's actually been particularly robust um I would say you know look we're currently working on 16 live transactions that are out in the market in various stages um which is greater than typical I mean it um the pipelines are particularly extended um yeah it's been a very robust time now the strategics have been quiet what do you mean by that the pipelines are extended I guess the there's a lot of backlog of deals waiting to go out into the market is probably a better way that I should have said it um I'm on like 4 hours of sleep this morning so yeah I mean there's a lot of activity the the strategics are still relatively slow we see what's going on with Ren kill um they're acquiring right and I think they'll do their 250 million pound in acquisition spend mhm they'll probably do a lot more of that in rest of world than they will in the US um Rollins has continue to do deals um anti-six has been relatively slow um the question is whether or not they'll be eyeing a public offering next year but uh you know the financial sponsors have stepped in you know we just we co-advisors with JP Morgan on the aptive deal that closed what month are we in now October closed on September 30th so you know was a a very large transaction for this industry um it was a multi-year process you know we got we were originally gauged back in 2022 and so it was kind of an iterative process but you know that transaction finally closed in September 30 that's great David Royce I think will finally retire and go off and do something else he said I am out of pest for good and I actually think he'll be out of pest for good this time so super stoked for him it was I think it was a great transaction for him he's great guy and has built a great business so that's good so that got done um and then there's a handful of financial sponsors that continue enter the market so again m&a is dominated by pe now we're seeing it across the board have the have you seen the strategics get any more competitive with private equity on valuation multiples or just be more involved in Deal process yes targets yes and no I think it's pretty he I'll give you an example we we just closed a transaction it was a PC2 top 100 Company 2 weeks ago and um it was done by one of the strategics and it was a case that I thought was going to be a PE deal and one of the strategics it hasn't been announced yet so I can't say the name of the company but one of the strategics really stepped up and got it done so I think they are willing to bend returns and buy a business if it's really important for them they are not competing on run of the-mill companies yeah the strategics aren't going to really fight for something unless it's it's very interesting for them so you know we're seeing that I would say that you know multiples have been pretty constant this year um from last year so we had the big spike up in the covid in 2021 it peaked in 2022 it stayed elevated and started to fall and then it's been pretty consistent since 2023 could you make the case that the Strate iics are being too conservative with their acquisition activity and the valuation multiples that they're willing to pay no I think the strategics have done a lot of transactions from 2017 through 2021 and so if you look at renil you'll get anemics those guys did a lot of deals and I think there is you know part of that value creation opportunity is integrating these things rationalizing the business harmonizing systems so I think that's an important part of getting a return from a deal and I and I think we've seen a period of digestion I would argue that atcx has attempted to do that in North America I think they're still doing it I think renil obviously is busy digesting Terminex still and integrating some of their old portfolio companies trying to think about branding I think Rollins is probably in the best position of the three to do a creative add-on Acquisitions I think Rollins continues to focus on building their independent Brands business Jerry was part of the independent brand operation after he came from home team I think he'll continue to grow that um so I would argue that they're probably not being too conservative from a purchase price perspective I would argue that they're probably being more conservative from a strategic perspective on this whole integration and how we creating value from historical deals um you know just these guys don't need to do deals like like Financial sponsors that want to get into the space so they're like yeah if we if we're not going to get an adequate return let somebody else buy it yeah you know you look at Rollins multiple though you know last I checked EV to eida north of 30 35 possibly you know they're picking up businesses anywhere from 10 to 12 times eida and if they're able to cut cost within those businesses ramp up density you know given their existing operations in those areas to me it seems like they could pay more and still have those be very creative from an incremental return perspective but I get it like why not why not be greedy in a sense of paying less ramping those returns up even higher but just a few of my thoughts on it yeah and you know I don't want to get too technical here but as you all know part of an acquisition decision historically comes down to acction dilution analysis right like you're a publicly traded company is this deal in immediately A Creative or dilutive or becomes a creative or dilutive over a short period of time and I think that was an extremely I think that was a more important analysis 10 years ago or 15 years ago when you had a huge disparity between you know publicly traded multiples and multiples on the whole were much lower true and now it's like okay well I'm trading at 35 times I can buy a business at 25 times and it's still a cretive but does it actually make sense on an internal rate of return basis sure it's a creative but I mean what sort of returns am I getting I'm going to get a 4% return do I really want to do that not exciting but how about 15 times 16 times right yeah and and I think that's kind of where the market has pushed these things um and it look it looks like it's going to I would say we'll probably see another 600 700 million in Acquisitions close in the next 180 days I would say that's how outstanding I love it so as it relates this market update the one other question I'm curious about is that you've had a number now of big PE backed rollups that have been operating for five six years now I'm thinking like green x antix uh Pesco some of these others and no one's really exited yet those larger rollup uh PE back companies so I'm curious do you expect some activity within that segment over the coming year two years a lot of people with r Equity are curious yeah I mean I would say every one of these companies that you mentioned is ready to go at any time I would say yeah this is just conjecture on my part I mean if somebody wanted to come in and pay 25 times for Pesco I think we would see that transaction close the reality is you know some of these businesses are still in early Innings with regard to integration um you know you take a company like Pesco it's a couple years old they bought a lot of desparate businesses across the United States I think they still do have a lot of heavy lifting to do from an integration perspective I think they've made massive strides I think they've done a great job with that business thus far but I think it's still um I think it's still an early innings for them but I think every Financial sponsor wants to sell that asset as soon as possible for the most part right if they can get it today they're going to do it um I would say probably by the end of 25 you know you will see one or two or a few of those go last question on the market cuz you are on 4 hours of sleep yes I am please email your questions in if you have other questions on the market we can do them on 8 hours do them when we're awake um any notable Trends you're seeing in the door to-door acquisition Market in a sense of companies that are primarily doorto door um businesses any comments on the acquisition Market in that realm no I mean I I I see these deals still getting done I think uh you know it's interesting to me um yeah here's an interesting concept I think we will likely see the big players out there actually start to do door to door themselves I think we're going to see I think you might you might see ncx do you might see Rollins up and do this more I mean we could live in a world um in the next couple years where a company like Rollins is putting on 50 or 100 million in Revenue per year on the doors I I I think that could happen um it be to me it's it's it's rather uncertain as to what that could potentially do from a multiple perspective with regard to Acquisitions but it's like I I think you know here's the discussions I have with senior Executives of these companies they have seen transaction multiples go up across the board even in door too right I mean back in those days you'd p70 cents on the dollar now like some of those deals will get done at you know 12 13 14 15 times EIT do and the question is like when those businesses are only 3 or 4 years old there is some value in buying those Seasons account accounts but you're not really buying a lot of capabilities and so the question now comes down to hm have we been thinking about this wrong should we go out and do door too ourselves and that creates some problems it creates the problem of they're scared to death of bad reviews I mean they get bad reviews anyway but they're scared to death of getting bad reviews from door- knocking that's number one number two financial implications when you sell a door too account um it typically historically would run through your p&l and it's a charge on the p&l it's expensive charge and so you're a publicly traded company or a big private Equity back company you have to worry about earnings and so that was isn't a good thing to do and you know companies like Rollins now for example they're capitalizing door-to-door expenses so they will capitalize it over a very short duration two years you know with some of our clients you know we'll capitalize it over four years and what does that mean that means okay I spent a 100 bucks on door to door today I get that account but I put that on the balance sheet and I'm going to expense it on my p&l over four years so 25 bucks a year right Mak sense yeah and you know there's a lot of debate over how long the capital capitalize a how how long do do you capitalize it over the life of the customer if you do how long is the life of the customer is it 2 years 3 years 4 years 5 years so I I I think you know when we see the publicly traded companies now they're capitalizing it two two years we might see them try to press for three or four we'll see what their otters allow them to get away with but the other aspect of that is like okay well if I'm Rollins or I'm reic kill I can go out and buy a a minority stake in a door to-door business and if I'm if I'm consolidating that Minority interest or I I can find myself with a minority interest in a business I don't have to consolidate that on my p&l so what does that mean that means Nick you own a doorto door company you're doing 100 million in Revenue I go out and I say Nick I'm going to buy 49% of your business I'm going to have control of that business because there'll be a variety of different consent rights and the participation agreement so in a lot of ways I'm going to be able to control it um you might have I'm going to have a call option on the rest of your Equity at some point in the future you may or may not have a put right putting me at some point in the future right but now I control a $100 million Door to-door business right doesn't run through my p&l because it's not Consolidated because I'm a minority owner and now what I can do is aim door to door whever the heck I want I can run a ton of expenses through that I don't have to worry about it and it solves a lot of problems for me I think that's probably going to happen I would imagine like I remember sitting at Cairo years ago actually having this conversation with one of the CEOs of one of the publicly traded company I remember exactly where we were sitting and we were talking about the use of you know taking a minority interest in order to keep these charges off the p&l so I I just think the ER is here now I think we're seeing if you think about it take the big three antx new CEO uh reill at least reill North America brand new CEO um Rollins Jerry brand new so I think these guys are going to be willing to do things that some of their predecessors haven't so I think doorto door is about to change and I think that that creates a lot of opportunity for smart guys out there and I think that throws in some huge risk factors on the horizon for some of these players so that's pretty fascinating it seems like a really interesting compelling strategy for those that are you know more b or sorry more income state statement folks particularly the the public companies yeah because like you know when I think about it if if I'm a public ad traded company and I could take a minority interest in a door to door business then I can run all those charges through there I don't have to worry about it going on my p&l I can control where all I can control density very easily I can control Green Field operations um and then you can buy it in as it matures right as those like Optical metrics become more favorable on the income statement you bring it in yeah you run it for 5 years and then all of a sudden you call the rest of that equity and then in one year maybe you're doing a $500 million deal at a predetermined price um boom and now you're consolidating it and now all those earnings hit your p&l so if somebody does it it was hatched right here and it's going to need some structuring help yes what else you got on here on your list so the other question that I get asked a lot especially for owners who are considering selling is how do I replace my income right so you're taking money from your pest control operations as it throws off cash on an annual basis and that's what you're living off of right it's a very different and foreign world for the pest control business owners to go from that business-based cash flow mindset to now more of a wealth-based mindset where they have $50 million and while that's a lot of money they need to figure out how to generate attractive after tax cash flow distributions to them and their family and so relating it to this private Equity conversation that you and I have been having over a number of months you know one thing we're doing at essential Partners is we're investing in private loan funds for these for these folks that are selling their businesses and so what's a private Loan Fund so private loan funds are essentially funds that are managed by huge multi hundred billion doll money management firms you know might it be Blackstone Black Rock Etc I personally don't don't use those two but people know those names so what we do is we would give let's say a particular private loan manager $10 million to uh basically then Steward to invest in private loans okay so what's a private loan so if a private equity firm is going to buy a $100 million Pest Control business they're not going to take all of that 100 million from their private Equity Fund what they do is they take around 60 million from the private Equity Fund and then they go out and they borrow $40 million okay and the place that they borrow that $40 million from is these private loan funds or direct lending funds so essentially by investing in multiple private loans funds you can build a portfolio of private Equity backed sponsor loans that yield around 10% right now do those rates float so the loans that are being made to finance these private Equity deals these are variable rate interest uh payments so what that means is that the Federal Reserve right now is at 4.75 on the base fed funds rate and then there's a spread above that in order to make these loans and so right now with the FED at 4.75% the loan on average of let's say the four private loan funds that I'm using for clients is about 10% so if the FED were to lower the FED funds rate by 1% that would go down to nine okay and so I find these to be a a really interesting opportunity because these loans are the first loans to get paid back in the capital structure and so if something were to go wrong with the these businesses they're first in order in any type of bankruptcy procedure however the current loan to value ratio is 40% so essentially if this private Equity Firm thinks this business is worth $100 million that value really has to go down to $40 million to start to think about losses in those loan funds so I find that to be something that has resonated with the uh Pest Control owners because they're beginning to understand more about the private Equity industry and this is a way that these private Equity Funds are financing the transactions that are occurring so that's one thing that we've been doing in a great way to replace income and so we've been having some discussions about that this week so you're typically replacing income in a combination of private credit funds the equity Market a bit in the equity Market I mean the equity Market you know there's some disadvantages and there's some advantages okay so the yield the overall dividend yield let's say of the global stock market is around 2% so you know if you're investing a substantial amount of money in the equity Market you're not getting much current income in return however over a longer period of time if you are achieving good returns in the stock market the advantage of that is that when you do sell stocks to fund your lifestyle it's capital gains tax rates which is much lower than ordinary tax rates from let's say some of the private loan funds the other thing we're doing though is that we're deploying a number of investment related strategies that Target Market beating returns but can significantly reduce the ordinary income component for the pest control owners after they sell which is you know substantial benefit particularly when you think about owners who typically don't pay a lot of cash taxes as they continue to reinvest in the business they essentially are shielded from that given the high expenses so once they sell having a high tax burden due to all this investment income that we're generating is something that no one wants right I mean right now in the US like what would the tax rate be on investment income from these private credit funds yeah so the top marginal rate is 37% so if someone lives in you know Arizona there's an incremental 25% if someone's in Florida it's obviously zero um California it's 13.3% so you know you're paying often times over 40% incremental on that investment income okay so it's important to to get that down I mean is there any way to offset that there is you know we're deploying investment related Tools in order to reduce that ordinary um income and while still generate a return and a lot of those things are proprietary and kind of like our own intellectual property so I typically don't get into that but they have proven to be very effective to not only reduce the taxes but also generate a return so if I lived in the states and let's say I made a million dollars out of these private credit funds like what sort of offsetting would you potentially be able to do so if someone Al so if someone had a million dollar in ordinary income and we were to divert let's say $4 million into these other investment related strategies that lower the ordinary income tax burden with $4 million we could lower ordinary income by about a million dollars so it's a substantial benefit and extremely Capital efficient so if you think about that for a second if you put $4 million in these investment related Tax Strategies and you're able to reduce ordin ordinary income by a million dollar assuming a 40% tax rate that's $400,000 of cash tax savings every year so $400,000 of cash tax savings on a $4 million investment you're getting a double- digigit return 10% just from the tax component before you consider potentially earning you know anywhere from a S to to 10% return on the actual Investments that are generating those tax savings well what happens if I'm doing a million dollars in ordinary income in my business right now I don't I'm I'm not in the credit fund I'm not worried about I make a million bucks in my business are you still able to to help me offset those taxes I'm able to do a bit but the more money someone has that is able to deploy in these strategies the more I'm able to bend that effective tax rate and you know the problem and I think it's a a good problem to have is that most PCOS are continuing to invest in their business at high rates of return in their business which I endorse and I'm all for and so they're not keeping back a lot of funds that you can then deploy in some of these Tax Strategies one other question that that I've been getting um here at pest world is that how does Matt Rogers always find the best coffee in a given City and the the best restaurants I mean you travel with Matt a lot I I can't answer that question I can get Matt Rogers up here I mean how much time does he spend doing that we ought to get Mr Brady here talk to talk about his huh we can talk about his honeymoon he should talk about his honeymoon are why why don't you step up here we got a few minutes we're about to close shop here come on up yeah L give him the mic this is a terrible idea so I was more Curious I was going to ask you we like to make a lot of bad decisions and so maybe this is one of them we'll see ask us M I was asking more oh I was going to ask more about with what you guys were just talking about with the bigger guys pulling I think that I don't know if you I think that was why Rollins acquired Fox I think they were looking for the door too capabilities that they used to have I mean my family sold with Eclipse back in the early 2000s for orc and I think they're trying to go back to some of their Heritage but with that is that going to change for people like myself where we should be in 5 or 10 years is that going to change our exit strategy is the PE going to are they going to be as prolific as they've been or what are we going to see shortterm nothing's really changing until it does suddenly but what is that going to mean in 5 10 years for some of us that are younger guys that aren't quite ready to exit but within 5 or 10 years if the market stays this way we we could be that wasn't about his honeymoon you what that wasn't about his honeymoon in P we'll get to the honeymoon um yeah I mean it's a good question because I here's the decision tree looks something like this right you're trying to grow cash flow you got a variety of ways to do it yeah online marketing door to-door sales Acquisitions all sorts of stuff so the problem is Acquisitions have gotten so damn expensive now it's actually prompted guys to look at look at door to door in a way that they had never looked at historically and I I actually believe that 15 years ago 10 15 years ago the door too summer sales we called it back then it was a show like it was just none of these a party let's it was a party it was a party but none of these guys really did a a great job If we're honest with ourselves I mean they just sold accounts they didn't really service it the goal and it was never really to build a business it was always like hey I'm going to do this for a few years I'm going to flip it to Terminex right but there's a lot of guys in the industry who've actually gotten wise and said look I can build build a long-term sustainable income producing asset I know how to sell on the doors I'm going to use that and I'm going to have a I'm going to have a good business kind of like you guys right exactly what we've done it's been excellent youve not intended to flip it so you guys are actually building real businesses you guys have now begun to in recent years get rewarded for that like because you know the guys who are doing it right and I I am a without a doubt I can look there's a spectrum it's like you know the Mexicans on the Spectrum somewhere we don't know where it is every door to-door company is on the Spectrum like there's show dumpster fires and then there's guys that like you guys you guys remember I went through your panl I was shocked and astounded and I want to talk to you about that in a minute but there there are companies that are are doing a great job you guys being one of them those are actually assets worth buying and so the question now I I think that all of the big players are asking themselves is these other guys are doing it why can't we do it and why haven't we done it well we haven't done it because we thought it sucked but it actually doesn't suck because some people are showing us that it it's actually not bad I've I've been impressed by the door door folks that I've talked to how they have a strict measurement on the customer economic variables right so they're very tightly managing the variables that drive the net present value of a particular customer yes some of them are some are idiot some like you said the Spectrum yeah I mean there's like there's a spectrum so this is we're going to call this show Spectrum so I think the implications for guys like you is um as Acquisitions get more expensive bigger companies start to say maybe let's you use door to door now the reality is how are they going to pull this off and here's what I mean by that if if you were a technician for Orin and you were making I don't know what they make 60 Grand a year and then you had some hotthead blond-headed dude that comes from Utah and he's on the doors and he's like yo my dick's so big I S so many accounts I I don't know if LDS dudes say that but they might think it um he's making 300K a year that creates a lot of problems I think for some of the big companies so that's a problem well how do you deal with that you do what I talked about you you invest you either Greenfield a door to door business that you own a minor interest in or you invest in one now it's kind of separate you're selling accounts for orgon or CHX or what have you so I think there's a lot of details to figure out there I think they're going to do it I think we're going to see it with regard to Fox they are doing some door to door not a whole lot Rollins doesn't have the capabilities now they will within the next year they'll have the capabilities to do it reill will as well you know Eric Ry Miller who is the COO of rill North America great guy brilliant um he was a Ground Pounder the guy would just grind he left renek Hill two weeks ago he was the guy who when we took the borgs businesses to Market you know your boys fat Jared and fat Jake you know now skinny now skinny actually said is a state of mind so when we took those businesses to Market you know we did the full process to private Equity guys a whole nine yards Eric Ry Miller said Paul I like these guys I like these businesses I'm not interested in door Todo it's been real I'm out of here and that's been his position for a long time and he's conservative and I appreciate that about him um he's gone now so it's New Era like the new guys are in town and they're looking around and they've got to get growth and then you know got tryan on the board at renek Hill saying got to move this thing along so it'll be interesting like I'm not sitting up here on stage saying renil will do this I'm just saying like if there was ever a time to do this like that we're in a new era I for me the jury's kind of ow on how it um how impact guys like you I don't think you guys are under an immediate threat but like it's one of those things where if that happens like things could change and it's pretty uncertain so it's hard to determine how that'll I have to give this whole this has been a new thesis that I've kind of thought about in recent weeks and then some of the meetings that I've had here with some of the bigger players have yeah well and I've been thinking about that with where we're located there's been a lot of m&a activity like everywhere but also there's a lot of new door to-door entrance on the smaller scale but also all of the bigger guys are now opening branches in our region so you guys have a how did you guys build your business what was your what was youro like you you and your brother have a great business so we sold door too for a long time it's been our family jeans I mean my dad did it for a summer uh my old second oldest brother did it uh back in the early 2000s we jumped in uh well my mom told me when I was young younger like hey go to college Go sellp pass control with your brother why would you not do that you're stupid if you don't okay um so we did that we worked with them for a while and then we were looking to open a new branch and they told us hey you guys are dumb if you open a branch with us uh you should just go start your own and who told you you were dumb Jared Jared and Kyle Jared all right yeah so we'd worked for them for Josh and I we we'd run teams for them in Chicago and Virginia and they were they were great awesome to work with and we we really were involved with not just the sales side of it that's what I loved about it is we were in their technician meetings we were in their operations and we saw like you know you saw their numbers you saw point it was a good company and so when everyone's like ah door to door sucks we're just like it's just marketing does it like we we thought it was a real P control company so I didn't know what they were talking about so when we we left just to start our own company we went where my brother's wife was from and we just happened into a great market up in the Northeast and now everyone is coming out there as well and it just we started uh we brought a couple guys we just knocked doors I would sell it Josh would service it we did that for 2 years then Co hit and nothing went it was super illegal in Massachusetts and those areas to talk to people so we we kind of slowed down and then we brought back after Co the door Todo teams um and it's it's just been great but you guys are sales guys so how did you learn how to to run that business and build that business and organize that that business well so like I said the last summer we we worked in the training meetings we would meet with their branch manager on their weekly training meetings that has nothing to do with sales when we lived I mean heck Josh lived in Chicago he lived in Jared's office for two months after we finished this one summer and he stayed till October taking you know uh cloth baths in their bathroom with Jared I I don't think Jared was there but I'm sure he he lend a hand if you needed it he would he's a he's a good fell yeah but no we we slept in their boardroom for 2 months uh cuz we were broke kids trying to start a company and we just air mattress and learned and watched everything from service to a little bit of commercial to all the things that the typical door to door guy doesn't see cuz all they do is just cheerlead for sales and didn't you weren't you like George castanza and you did the opposite of everything Fat Pat told you to do is that true most of it yeah um we typically like okay what do we see let's not do that and then what what do we think makes the easiest most sense um and then it works yeah so I mean it's not hard to do it the right way I found i i people over complicate these things it's like get a customer in the door do everything you can to cancel them in the first 30 days if they stick they're good customer keep them forever like that's that's our motto like make sure that people want to be there that are there if they don't want to be there just let them out who cares um don't let the sales guys dictate it tell them hey sorry we don't service that street you do we're not paying you on that sorry I don't care that you sold a fat contract there thank you I'll take it you're not getting paid on it they don't sell on that street anymore you were recently down in Puerto Rico what when was that when did I see you down there oh it was August August just got married August 2 so you pick the worst time ever to go to Puerto Rico no I picked the best time you know what's the best way to spend a honeymoon stuck in a hotel room cuz Ernesto is uh blown through the island so you can't go anywhere all right being stuck in a Resort Room isn't the worst way to spend a honeymoon yeah I guess I didn't think about it that way you couldn't go you were down there for like 10 days couldn't go anywhere yeah we we were there a little over two weeks and uh it was beautiful and then it was awful and then it was beautiful again once the storm passed uh we missed we didn't get to go to the uh vus we almost got to go to the vus we turned down the Mexican he offered to let us uh wasn't he going to boat run you over there he's going to boat run us over and then we're going to stay at his place and I politely declined that offer the mar the marriage hadn't melded yet you were concerned yeah it it didn't set yet you wanted to make sure I say she's still not able to stay she doesn't had a green card yet I want to make sure that we lock this down before she actually stays what was her opinion of the Mexican uh I mean is does anyone have a different opinion of the Mexican no but I like to hear it she's like he's crazy is this what you do it's like well no this is what the Mexican does uh what we do is well nothing like this no one is like the Mexican no one indeed so yeah it's it's been great um working with you guys listening to what you guys have to say it's like like I said it's not hard to do the right thing you get to come down visit Puerto Rico get some good advice talk to people that know what they're talking about see I mean I'm no Nostradamus so we talk to you guys where we see a little bit what's coming down the pipeline and then we make adjustments and pivots accordingly and like we we're at least a million dollars richer because of what you guys have said like awesome so and that's just right now I'm hoping you're more than a million dollars richer oh I'm just saying where we're at right now 6 years in like we're at least a million dollars bigger and further and profitable give me one example of of something that you've used that made you richer like we switched to monthly billing okay we were just we used to it's we were selling quarterly Services selling at a good price we we came in on the shoulders of these other guys and so we were never lowballing but we came in at Market rates or above Market rates we shopped around but then talking to you guys and and some of the people your clients are if you're not doing monthly billing you're doing it wrong we switched to monthly billing 40% increase in our rates no cancellation rate our monthly revenue is now steady and and consistent and predictable um I you know I love you guys as a case study because I remember at Hawaii last year you I I would I hadn't really gotten to know you yet and looked at your numbers and had any sort of serious discussions for you about planning for the future but I remember you came to me and you're just like dude we're we were just sales guys we just turned the buzz on we listened to it we were just like it let's do it and you guys just did it and your business is just like I it's it's amazing it really is yeah and we try to keep I mean as stupid as it sounds we try to keep our growth manageable we don't want to do the 2 3 400% growth year-over-year it's expensive and that's when you let crap in through the door so we keep it 50% or close to that year-over-year growth and we keep profit margins high and if it's not profitable growth then we don't do it you know so we we turn away all the the the sexy antill services that are chunky as you say CU it's a ton of money to the bottom but it's not recurring we just don't do it I would argue live on the air that you guys have you're the the profile of your business the fundamentals is probably the best in New England now not obviously not on size where are you guys like four or five million now yeah about four and a half not that's I'm not saying the biggest but I'm saying like the cash flow the level of risk the growth rates don't tell my wife I would say it's probably it would be my number one pick for New England your business what you guys have done don't it up I just let Josh run the operations and it it runs well where is Josh he's oh there he is looks different is it hair grown out he's I don't know he's got the juo I don't know where it came from got it I can see that no he runs get him up here let's get that let's get that on camera I say he runs all operations and anything that has to be correct he does it this is you know this is the last show of pest World which has turned into somewhat of a variety a variety show right it has it has if you go well and that's that's where your value comes from I mean who else do I talk to that isn't just a giant guy that's saying how great they are or a small guy that thinks they're better than they are so Jos so give it to us just you can talk into it it's a mic oh it's turned on it's good to see you man I've been seen you good to see you guys too yeah good to be up here thank you for having usy your hair's different for sure oh absolutely I'm no left yeah stuck in the office forget to go get a haircut he's that's why he's the face of the company I just keep me in the back office expecting to be up here either you know so people will ask us all the time like hey what's your secret sauce they'll especially like we we' run through fraction so Patrick does our numbers so Patrick will ask us well Cameron will ask us in our monthly meeting as we're going through it he's like okay cool and it's just the most casual quick meeting cuz he's like yeah you're you're hitting all the goals you're exceeding all the goals why do we even have the goals you guys are never even close to them um and we're just like well I don't know cuz you're supposed to do this right and he's like well what's your secret sauce and it's like we we don't know like we don't and I I hate to just plead ignorance but we just do Pest Control we just do it right I I guess we don't know what the secret sauce is and I I'm always Baff when people tell me what you're saying like oh you guys's numbers are so different from everyone else's in in these areas I don't know how you I think my winter project my my intellectual project this winter is I'm going to do a diagnostic I'm going to figure out what it is and say we I'm going to delve in and figure out what you guys are doing different one of the things that I would think and and say has been most helpful for us is we're new in the industry we're new to our business and stuff we don't have a whole lot of our own ideas and we've been very good at you know listening to you and your guests and all that and you asked how also how did you learn the pesticide stuff uh just ask people and they'll tell you we have the the department heads regularly come in and help us out and and they'll tell you so just really leveraging those relationships has probably been the best so we don't we don't have to reinvent things this Pest Control business isn't new and the business side of things that's we rely on you guys yeah as I say I think focusing on the fundamentals which is stupid but okay route density our average technician is driving 20 mi or less a day doing over $2,000 a day per per Tech um we're we're pre-loading them up with just 12 stops every day we pay production so we we can control all of our numbers really well we know what it is we buy in bulk annually when they're on sale so we we buy drums like we we don't do anything fancy we just do the right things and like I said if we've got a guy driving more than 50 miles a day we look at that and be like okay why are why are we not on these same two streets we've got enough customers how do we and and with the monthly billing did you remind me so much of Jared you're you're like a Jared Prodigy just like the way you talk the the things that you say you remind me of him well cool if we could sell for Jared that's cool that's that's the goal but I mean we look at it and it's just like just keep your customers keep them happy and keep it tight and so you know switching to monthly billing we'll push people over a month just to get hyper density route and then now we're looking for a few other things we're going to be putting in lawn signs this year and it's so funny cuz I was looking at the map dots and I'm like we're just going to drive and you're just going to see anchor lawn signs on one street if we do it all in the same day you should talk to Matt bril and Ryan clater BAU those guys are the Masters um he was a guest on the show early early on I'll introduce you to him that's why we're master of oh cuz he's the master of lawn signs yeah y I mean he had the you know this was a business that did less than 10 million in revenue and we were selling it like the orcan crew thought it was like a100 million business cuz he put lawn signs in their in their Executives like just yeah I mean he really so lawn science yeah and those are the types of things we get from your show and from you know conversations I was talking to Dylan earlier and I was like hey you guys you were talking with uh I think it was Rob Greer and he was talking about fluke and I'm like you guys mentioned so many books like I've I I just finished um thinking fast and slow I finished uh I can't remember the other books now but I was talking to Dyan I'm like hey you guys mention so many books and I've got stacks of them that we're going through in the office like can you just run AI through all of the transcripts of all of your the buzz episodes all your pomac TV and just give me the repository of all the books so I can catch up on all the things cuz I mean you will have a guy that'll mention four books at a time like okay I don't have any kids yet but I don't have that much time right then use AI to summarize the Bucks yeah well guys it was great having you up here I didn't say certainly unplanned thank you it was unplanned thanks for coming on time for me to head to the airport but that's it you guys are done cool thank you see you guys you