Interview with Jason Walton, founder and CEO of Moxie Pest Control and U.S. Senate candidate from Utah, recorded at Pest World 2024 in Denver, CO. Hosted by Paul Giannamore, the conversation covers Walton's decision to run for Senate and his views on taxation, government reform, and entrepreneur-led politics; the founding and growth of Moxie Pest Control, including its shared ownership model and people-versus-systems management approach; and lessons on leadership, partnerships, and scaling a business. Timestamps provided in the description cover these topics from a brief industry teaser through post-Senate aspirations and challenges facing Utah. # Channel Identity Observations: POMAC TV ## Explicit Self-Description (Creator Claims) ### Channel Name and Stated Focus - Host introduces himself: **"hi I'm Paul jamore"** and the channel as **"pomac TV"** / **"patomic TV."** - Stated historical scope: > "historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential and Commercial Services business owners" ### Stated Audience - **Residential and commercial services business owners**, explicitly named in the self-description. - The host addresses this group directly during the interview: > "for those of you who are business owners out here pesc" (pest control operators) ### Stated Content Direction and Expansion - Creator announces new M&A content driven by viewer demand: > "after the publication of the cellsite m&a master class last month my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests" - Planned content: > "more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the cell side as well as the buy side... m&a psychology... extensive buide practice approach and due diligence" - Creator claims **viewer-driven programming**: > "this channel is largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us" - Calls to action: subscribe link, email distribution list link, and comment solicitation for topic requests. ### Host's Self-Disclosed Positioning - Host describes himself as **"a US national but I've been an expat for over 15 years"** and later **"I live in Puerto Rico I can't even vote in the presidential election"** — presenting himself as an expat interviewer with specific tax-policy interests (citizenship-based taxation). ## Observable Presentation (Demonstrated Patterns) ### Interview Format with Industry Figures - The bulk of the video is a **long-form interview** with a named guest (Jason Walton, pest control founder and former Utah Senate candidate), opened with: > "Jason welcome to the show" - Host frames guest credibility via industry reputation: > "you are royalty in the industry founder one of the largest pest control companies in the country" ### Topic Scope Demonstrated - **Business content**: partner/shared-ownership models, scaling, people-vs-systems philosophy, hiring, growth lessons, competitive advantage of scale. - **Political/policy content**: Senate campaign, federal debt, taxes, DOGE, federal land ownership in Utah, balanced budget amendment, PAC strategy — showing the channel extends beyond purely operational business topics when guests bring that background. - Host bridges both domains: > "I'm going to get into business here with you in a second but I'm going to ask you a question that probably no one has asked you on the campaign Trail" ### Host Interviewing Style - Asks prepared, specific questions (expat taxation, DOGE, scale-as-advantage, "what's gotten harder and what's gotten easier"). - Offers his own analytical framing, e.g., comparing populist fiscal politics to **"Emerging Market politics"** and noting bailouts **"seed the seeds for the younger generation distrust in capitalism."** - Occasionally declines personal involvement: > "I will not [run for office] I'm unelectable" ### Industry Affiliation Signals - Strong recurring pro-industry framing endorsed by host and guest: guest calls pest control **"as honorable and as pure and as a noble profession as you can have"** and host is thanked for **"all the good work you do in our industry and for just the awareness that you bring."** - Guest references shared industry relationships (e.g., "even David Royce talks about it publicly"), indicating the channel operates within a known home-services industry network. ## Claimed vs. Demonstrated Distinction - **Claimed**: educational channel for service business owners, now expanding M&A masterclasses per viewer demand. - **Demonstrated**: long-form personality-driven interviews mixing business-building narratives with guest-specific political commentary; audience engagement channels (comments, email list, LinkedIn) actively promoted. # Delivery Observation: Jason Walton Interview (Pest Control TV / Paul Giannamore) ## Speakers - **Host (Paul Giannamore):** interviewer; opens with a channel welcome segment, then conducts a long-form interview. - **Guest (Jason Walton):** pest control founder and former Utah Senate candidate; the bulk of the transcript is his speech. --- ## Tone ### Guest: Energetic, emphatic, conviction-driven - Speaks in superlatives and absolutes when describing his industry and country: > "it is an honorable and as pure and as a noble profession as you can have" > "the greatest country that's ever existed on the planet Earth" - Emotional intensity when recounting his son's NICU story — plain, declarative sentences: > "one of them called me an inhuman monster" > "I lost 48 lbs in 4 weeks" - Frequently self-interrupts or asks his own clarifying question before answering: > "so I assume your question is is to explain expound on that a little bit more like how did I get there why did I do it" ### Host: Probing, conversational, occasionally challenging - Uses direct follow-up questions to press the guest: > "so what were you thinking" > "tell me so is that is that just something you're hearing or do you have some facts behind that" - Frames points then defers: "I think you're describing also Emerging Market politics" --- ## Recurring Phrases & Verbal Habits ### Guest - **"So like" as a connective** — appears constantly across topics: > "so like I said if I started three months earlier I would have won" > "so like the first time someone called me a politician I was like a fighting words" - **Repetition for emphasis** (immediate word doubling): > "mounting and building and mounting and building" > "that's exactly it that's exactly it" > "it it it it unduly inhibits individuals" - **"You know" as a filler**, especially mid-narrative: > "you know the pest control things been in the works for a while" - **"I mean" to preface assertions:** > "I mean it's just… I think you're describing the trend of the United States" - **"Literally" as intensifier:** > "we are literally the pulse of the United States" > "I think literally our industry doesn't get this" - **"Quite frankly" / "to be honest" as disclosure markers:** > "quite frankly I've I've been toying at…" > "to be honest with you" - **"If/then" incentive framing** — a stable reasoning pattern: > "if you want people to go abroad then make your policies and tax structure support that if you don't want people to go abroad then don't have your tax policies and structures support it it's that simple" ### Host - **"I mean" to open questions**, mirroring the guest: > "I mean you are royalty in the industry" - **Restating guest claims for confirmation:** > "so you were the monster for keeping the child alive" — "that's right yes that's right" --- ## Teaching / Explaining Habits - **Analogy and concrete imagery** to make policy points: > "that's like going to… Mount Everest… it's one raindrop of water in an ocean" > "it's going to be a stack of paper that's about… 10 to 12 in high but if I get out the Federal Register… 10 to 12 ft high" - **Physical-tangible comparisons for abstract ideas** — the 10–12 inches of laws vs. 10–12 feet of regulations is the clearest example. - **Named frameworks:** explicitly cites *The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People* ("habit one be proactive habit two begin with the end in mind") and the **Peter Principle** ("beyond one or two levels of the Peter principal"). - **Anecdote-as-lesson pattern:** the shIN-kicking employee story ("Dave… kundig") is used explicitly as a metaphor: "I liken that to entrepreneurship." - **Direct address to an implied audience:** shifts from interview to camera-facing advice: > "for those of you who are business owners out here… do you remember the first time one of your people got an accident in a in one of your trucks" - **Numbered points** when organizing answers: > "thing number one that who they were… two the refining experience of starting something from nothing… and then number three" - Occasionally **announces a list then shortens it:** > "number three um well I think those are the main those are the main two" --- ## Communication Patterns - **Long, unbroken answers** — guest routinely delivers multi-paragraph responses (e.g., the Senate-run origin story, the Federal Register explanation, the Utah land argument). - **Host uses interruption-light steering**: asks a new question and lets the guest run; occasional gentle redirects ("Jason before you get to that so what actually made you not taking off life support"). - **Guest previews or withholds information rhetorically:** > "I told Nick I probably wasn't going to talk about this but toying at putting together a group of 8 to 12 people" - **Guest answers questions with questions** at times: > "so he'll have the authority to do what" > "what what are the objectives" - **Self-aware hedging after strong statements:** > "I know I sound aggressive on the stage but… I'd say it more politely like a lot more politely" > "I don't want to be quoted out of context there" --- ## Stable Patterns vs. Isolated Moments **Stable (repeatedly observable):** - "So like" connective and word-repetition emphasis - Superlative framing of industry/country - If/then incentive-based reasoning - Analogy-based explanation - Direct-audience address **Isolated / low-confidence:** - Self-deprecating humor about age ("I earned all the gray hair") — appears once; insufficient repetition to call a pattern. - The closing exchange about Puerto Rico taxes ("I have some Tax Strategies for you") — single moment, light banter; no basis to infer a habitual style. **Uncertainty note:** This is a single transcript without audio; pauses, laughter, and vocal delivery cannot be observed, only lexical evidence. # Position Extraction: Jason Walton — Pest Control Leader and Senate Candidate **Video:** "Saving the American Dream: Jason Walton's Path from Pest Control Leader to Senate Candidate" **Interviewer:** Paul Giannamore (POTOMAC TV) --- ## 1. Senate Campaign Motivation - **Jason Walton** states he filed for U.S. Senate in Utah on the **very last day possible**, driven by "mounted frustration" over corruption at every level and people's "inability to do the right thing just 'cuz it was the right thing to do." - He had **no prior political involvement, no staff, and hadn't told partners or friends** before filing. - Concerns cited: **national debt**, abandonment of the **Constitution and constitutional republic**, and what he calls an "active force" — including "enemies abroad" — pushing America to abandon what made it great. He says he saw "Socialist and Marxist ideas start creeping in." - His framing: > "I said if not me then who." - He acknowledges a prior "healthy disdain for politicians — all of them." - He claims: > "If I started three months earlier, I would have won" — a counterfactual assertion, not a settled fact. ## 2. Politicians vs. Entrepreneurs - **Walton:** Entrepreneurs and executives, not career politicians, are what America needs; starting in junior offices produces career politicians. Someone who can "discern key issues... mobilize capital and human resources" — he calls that "an entrepreneur." - **Paul (pushback):** Most people start with junior offices — don't most Senators begin as state or federal representatives? - **Walton** disagrees, reiterating his counterfactual claim about winning and asserting he'd have contributed "day one." ## 3. Planned Industry Political Consortium - **Walton** reveals he is exploring a group of **8–12 people** from pest control/home services to run for U.S. House over 10–12 years — "a powerful awakening force." - **Paul** raises the difficulty: asking Americans "to get off the government dole" is hard when "politicians are basically bribing Americans with their own money." - **Walton** endorses that framing: > "Politicians are robbing you with your own money... Show me the country that taxed itself into prosperity ever." ## 4. Citizenship-Based Taxation - **Paul** (self-described 15-year expat US national) asks Walton's view on Trump's stated shift toward residency-based taxation, arguing it harms US competitiveness abroad. - **Walton** dismisses it as "so low on the totem pole" — a distraction issue akin to "taxing the top 1%": > "One raindrop of water in an ocean." - He adds he believes in **incentive-based laws**: if you want people abroad, structure tax policy to support it; if not, don't. - **Unresolved tension:** Paul retains his view that it's "a big issue"; Walton doesn't concede, only saying "if dollar-wise that becomes substantial" it would warrant attention. ## 5. Government Efficiency (DOGE) and the "Deep State" - **Walton** conditions any optimism on **how much authority** the office has. - **Paul:** "The Deep State does not exist." - **Walton** disagrees, defining it as "the big pockets who control politicians"; he describes DC politicians as self-interested, polling before taking positions, and possibly "interviewing for their next job" during committee hearings. - **Exception noted:** Utah Senator **Mike Lee**, whom Walton calls "inspirational" and "honorable" — an epiphany that public office could be honorable. - **Administrative state:** Walton argues the Federal Register's regulations (~10–12 ft high/year vs. 10–12 inches of actual law) are "unelected people making our laws," citing a hypothetical firearms regulation. His comparison: > "My memory is we fought the Revolutionary War over that." ## 6. Fiscal Stimulus and Economic Cycles - **Paul** worries that pulling back fiscal stimulus (IRA, CHIPS Act, infrastructure act) could slow the economy unhealthily. - **Walton** pushes back: > "Why are you letting a private bank artificially inflate the economy?" He argues 2006–2008 bailouts taught people there are no consequences; recessions are the "cleansing that capitalism provides." - **Paul** agrees the GFC bailouts "seeded distrust in capitalism" and widened wealth inequality. - **Walton** acknowledges the risk of being quoted: > "It's easy for someone to come in behind me and say... he's okay for the bad times" — clarifying he means **normal economic cycles** are healthy. ## 7. Moxy Pest Control: Origins and the Shared Ownership Model - **Walton** founded Moxy in the 1990s; revenue is "safely over 25 million a month," projected ~**$280M for calendar 2024**. - **Origin of shared-ownership model:** His son **Joshua**, born extremely prematurely, suffered four serious brain injuries. Doctors/nurses (13 of them, twice) individually urged the Waltons to take him off life support; one called Walton "an inhuman monster." - **Why he refused:** Faith ("that was not God's plan"), a prior stillborn son, and belief his wife would never recover emotionally. - **Outcome stated by Walton:** After 8–12 hours/day of structured therapy for three years (led by his wife), Joshua, now 22, is a junior at Utah Valley University, lived independently, and interned for Senator Mike Lee. (Presented as Walton's account.) - Selling customers to **Terminix** to handle the crisis, he created the shared-ownership model partly "as a way of apologizing to people." - Paul notes Walton's reputation for backing industry figures, e.g., **David Royce**. ## 8. Business Philosophy - **People vs. systems:** Walton rejects the either/or framing — "You can train people in systems; you can't train people to like people." Mission: improving quality of life. - **Keys to partner success:** (1) partners qualified to be CEOs anywhere; (2) the "refiner's fire" of building from nothing. - **Learning lessons:** Stephen Covey's habits — begin with the end in mind, be proactive, principle-centered living; values operate like physical laws ("you can't lie to your employees and expect trust, no more than walking off a cliff and not falling"). - **Scaling challenges:** He cites personal losses — daughter's suicide, brother's fatal heart attack, father's and mother's deaths within roughly 3.5 years — as changing his "definition of hard" (illustrated via a martial-arts "calcified shins" anecdote). - **Scale as advantage:** Attracting sharper talent (offices with graduate-degree-heavy staff, paid MBAs, attorneys in operations). - **Original aspiration:** business model written for **$5–9B revenue**; he judges himself "way behind pace" due to the family crisis detour. ## 9. Political Strategy: PAC and Federal Land - **Walton's plan:** A **$600M–$1B PAC** funding self-funded candidates (5–6 Senate, ~12 House) who "don't care if they lose," targeting the removal of unethical officeholders, then pursuing a **balanced budget amendment** and returning federal land. - He asserts (as his belief): > "I've seen behind the curtain... I'm positive it would work." - **Federal land argument:** Federal government owns **67% of Utah**; enabling acts fund schools via property tax, so Utah must raise income taxes — "you're hurting kids." He excludes national parks, targeting sagebrush acres near cities. - **Messaging strategy:** Communicate where people are — e.g., frame land inequality as "unfairness" to reach fairness-oriented audiences; he criticizes both the "far right" pulpit-pounding and notes "the right" is "really bad at marketing" (citing "Inflation Reduction Act" and "Affordable Care Act" branding). - He describes a hypothetical pressure tactic: remove one official "so they know I'm serious," then give 14 senators 30 days to publicly support — though he says he'd phrase it "a lot more politely." ## 10. Utah Politics and Future Ambitions - **Paul:** Utah is arguably run better than the federal government — Walton challenges this: Utah's **real tax rate per household is 11th highest**, which he attributes to lost property-tax base. - **Walton** says Utah is "going woke" and could be "targeted by Soros" (no evidence offered beyond assertion). - **Governorship:** Walton is "open for all of it" but conditional: > "I don't want to run for office for the sake of running for office" — he needs clear objectives only he can uniquely achieve, otherwise he'd rather back someone else. - **Current work:** Assembling a Utah PAC for state school board, House, and Senate candidates; political staff referred by Senator Mike Lee. ## 11. Industry Reverence - **Walton's closing position:** Pest control is "as honorable and as pure and as noble a profession as you can have," and the industry is "literally the pulse of the United States." - **Paul** declines to run: "I'm unelectable," also noting he lives in Puerto Rico and can't vote in presidential elections. Walton responds he has "tax strategies" to solve that. --- ## Speaker Attribution & Qualification Notes - All policy positions above belong to **Jason Walton**; **Paul Giannamore** serves as interviewer and offers his own positions on citizenship-based taxation, fiscal stimulus risk, wealth inequality, and Deep State skepticism — preserved as stated disagreements. - Walton's claims about winning had he filed earlier, PAC effectiveness, and Utah's tax burden are **asserted opinions/counterfactuals**, not verified facts. - Walton explicitly flags context risk on his "healthy to have bad times" remark and on the role of government ("I'm saying it on a large level... I don't want to be quoted out of context"). # Speaker Attribution Record — Video `01a168c8-2f78-72d7-b3cc-bbae84c09189` **Title:** *Saving the American Dream: Jason Walton's Path from Pest Control Leader to Senate Candidate* ## Speakers and Roles | Speaker | Role | Evidence in Transcript | |---|---|---| | **Paul Jamore** (self-identified: "hi I'm Paul jamore") | **Host / Channel creator (Pestmart TV / "patomic TV")** | Welcomes subscribers, frames channel purpose, conducts interview; states he is a US-national expat living in Puerto Rico ("I live in Puerto Rico I can't even vote"). | | **Jason Walton** | **Guest** — founder of pest control company Moxy, former candidate for U.S. Senate (Utah) | Introduced by host as "royalty in the industry... candidate for Senator to the state of Utah"; discusses Moxy revenue, his son Joshua, and political plans. | | **Dylan** | Mentioned by host (co-host of planned M&A master classes); **does not speak in this transcript** | "Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes." | ## Promotional Segments (Flagged) - **Channel promo** at the open: host promotes subscriptions ("click below and subscribe"), the **email distribution list** link in the description, viewer comments driving content, and references the prior *"Sell-Side M&A Master Class"* publication with upcoming **sell-side and buy-side M&A master class** episodes. - No third-party product or sponsor promotion is present beyond the channel's own content. ## Referenced Third Parties and Claims (Unverified, Attribution Only) - **Jason Walton (guest) references:** - **Donald Trump** — claim: stated in "the journal" (Wall Street Journal, implied) weeks earlier that he wants to end citizenship-based taxation. Unverified in transcript. - **Senator Mike Lee (R-UT)** — praised as ethical; his office referred political staff to Walton; Walton's son Joshua interned for Lee. - **Elon Musk / Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)** — discussed hypothetically. - **David Royce** — per host, publicly credits Walton for staking/inspiring him. - **Governor Spencer Cox** — host claims he announced he is not running again; Walton expresses openness to a gubernatorial run. - **George Soros** — claim Utah may be "targeted by Soros"; unverified. - **Terminix** — Walton states he sold customers to Terminix during his son's illness. - **Boeing** — cited as example of corporate influence on committee politicians. - Legislation named: **Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS Act, Infrastructure Act, Affordable Care Act**. - *Seven Habits of Highly Effective People* — guest cites its principles. - **Host references:** his LinkedIn inbox requests after the M&A master class publication. ## Availability and Provenance Limits - **No curated metadata** was supplied with this source; all facts derive from the transcript alone. - **Comment availability:** host explicitly invites viewer comments ("feel free to put a comment below"); actual comment content is not available in source. - Timestamps, publication date, and external verification of claims are **unavailable**. the service industry and the pest control industry in general to me is Honorable and as pure and as a noble profession as you can have look what we were doing as an industry why the country was going through turmoil and we we we are literally the pulse of the United States hi I'm Paul jamore I wanted to welcome our new subscribers to the channel you know historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential and Commercial Services business owners but after the publication of the cellsite m&a master class last month my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests so Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the cell side as well as the buy side I intend to talk about the choice of process delving deep into m&a psychology uh as well as extensive buide practice approach and due diligence for those of you who have not subscribed you can click below and subscribe to the channel furthermore we've provided a link here in the description where you can get on our email distribution list and if you do that you'll receive an email right in your inbox with our latest Publications feel free to put a comment below on the types of things you want to see I mean this channel is largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us again thanks for joining us here at patomic TV Jason welcome to the show thank you it's good to be here it's great to have you here I mean you are royalty in the industry founder one of the largest pest control companies in the country um and most recently candidate for Senator to the state of Utah yeah both those things they uh you know the the pest control things been in the works for a while I earned all the gray hair smart I've been doing it since the '90s uh but the politics thing brand new I've never been involved in politics at any level and yeah just out of the blue I decided to run for the US Senate I mean I want to start with the Senate instead of pest control because if I remember correctly you woke up one day or maybe you thought about this for a while but you actually put in the filing to actually become a candidate extremely last minute yeah no that that's it so I assume your question is is to explain expound on that a little bit more like how did I get there why did I do it yeah so uh what were you thinking it was mounted frustration so the truth is when I when I filed I didn't know any like really anyone in politics I didn't have a staff my friends and my my my co-workers didn't know my partners didn't even know I don't think they knew and so but there there was a period of months there where I was just seeing corruption at every level of just people's inability to do the right thing just cuz it was the right thing to do and every time I turned around it was again and it was again and it was again and um the more I saw that the more it just started mounting and building and mounting and building and then I was worried about our country so I'm an accounting major when you bootstrap a company from your garage and like you said make it into a you know multi hundred if not billion dollar Enterprise you know a thing or two about budgeting and about debt so our debt is just to to me and so looking at the direction that the country was going in debt and just just the things that I think made America amazing made America great and that is the Constitution that we're a constitutional republic and the more I could see that we were abandoning that and it looked to me and I still very firmly believe there's an active Force out there not just that's just with parties but I think even our enemies abroad but there's an active Force that's trying to get us to abandon the things that make the United States of America the greatest country that's ever existed on the planet Earth and so I could see that slipping away I could see the Socialist and Marxist ideas start creeping in and um I said if not me then who you know so it's it's so I I I I I had ridden out other people's coattails all my life let other people take care of that quite frankly I had a healthy disdain for politicians all of them yeah very very healthy mistrust I mean for the my local Pest Control operators here I mean what do you think of The Regulators I mean do you think you think the government gets in your pocket enough and and regulates it's it is just toxic and um yeah so the first time someone called me a politician I was like a fighting words what do you mean I'm a politician like hey you're the one that's running for office but yeah like I just got to the the day I didn't really start even considering it seriously till December and then the very last day you could file I filed and then I started making phone calls to build a campaign which I feel you know obviously I wish I had a do I'm virtually certain we would have had a we would have had a victory even if I just did it 3 months earlier um but that's just not where I was 3 months earlier I mean most people start with more of a junior office than the United States Senate right I mean don't most Senators begin as state shs or federal represents like I said if I started three months earlier I would have won and if I would have won it would I mean I'm just saying it would have been good for America I would have been uh I think I would have brought a lot to the United States Senate immediately day one right out of the gate I think other senators and other members of the House saw that and recognized it knew that as well and it was the right position for me so um I don't regret that so that's what I'm qualified to do and and uh it's a bummer I'm not going to have the opportunity to do that right now and I and I think that's actually the problem is that most politicians do start in those Junior roles work their way up and effectively they're career politicians so what are you learning how to do is like what are you learning at that I mean like look I think if you know how to to run a business that you could build something from nothing what's the skill set you're looking for in a politician I mean maybe someone that's politically aligned when when we say get things done what do you mean by that do you mean you can think through policy decisions and and be able to to be able to quickly discern what the key issues and problems are and then mobilize your capital and human resources to achieve it yeah I call that an entrepreneur so like or or executive leadership but I think that the the what America needs more than ever are entrepreneurs and executive ERS in fact quite frankly I've I've been really toying at I told Nick I probably wasn't going to talk about this but toying at putting together a group of 8 to 12 people to run for the for the house the US House of Representatives uh maybe even together uh over the next 10 to 12 years I can't think of anything better than to get people here right here in in the pest control industry the Home Services industry people who literally started from nothing and know something or else about the American dream and want to preserve it cuz they can see is slipping away I think we'd be a powerful Awakening Force to the country doing that together and that's something I'm I'm looking into and I look forward to talking to my brothers and sisters in the industry to seeing if they want to come do that with me I mean the issue in the United States is don't American voters vote for I mean when you think about it a lot of the stuff you talk about which I truly believe is the correct way to think about it is actually hard right you're asking Americans to actually get off the the government Dole so to speak um it's I I feel like nowadays like politicians are basically bribing Americans with their own money and and that's not what you're looking to do and so that puts it when you're in a more difficult position than the guy that goes out there and says let's print a bunch of money let's do all these government programs hey you don't need to work we've got all these programs for you but that's that's not what you're that's not what you're looking to do I think I think you're describing also Emerging Market politics yeah I mean it's just no I think you're I think you're describing the trend of the United States of America right now like that that I think that that's an accurate description of what got me off the couch is that that's exactly right is that like I love how you worded it Paul is that politicians are robbing you with your own money that's exactly it that's exactly it so like you go show me the country that taxed itself into Prosperity ever not just now ever in the history of the world it just doesn't work that way but yes politicians are into and the corruption of politicians is one of the key things that got me up off the couch and going cuz near as I can tell what they're interested in is preserving is gaining a preserving power and so enriching themselves politically and financially and I'll be honest the more I got involved the more I realized it was dead right and even even in the state of Utah I can see that happening and so right now I'm getting a lot more involved in the local politics of helping make sure that we clean up our own house in the state at the state level to make sure that that that that that you that Utah's preserved as a great place to live and raise families and do business and right now the main obstacle that we have is the federal government you know I'm going to get into business here with you a second but I'm going to ask you a question that probably no one has asked you on the campaign Trail and it's not controversial don't worry I I just I've been asked so many things I'm I'm actually hope you do I hope you I hope you can come up with something I haven't been asked yet okay so I'm a US national but I've been an expat for over 15 years and the United States in erria are pretty much two of the only countries on the planet that have citizenship based taxation right an American can't go abroad uh and experience residency based taxation like pretty much anyone else on the planet can which means that American has to do the faka forms and F bars and file tax returns um and pay taxes on worldwide Inc income Donald Trump came out a couple of weeks ago in the journal and said he's finally made the decision that he wants to get rid of that he wants to get rid of citizenship based Taxation and focus on residency based taxation I'm wondering what your perspective is on that my perspective is that's so low on the totem hold on have you been asked that question uh yeah really yeah I have yeah I mean you know where I come from of course I've been asked that question yeah um I just think that that that's the type of question that to me is people people in politics ask that question because they're trying to dodge what the real issues are just like saying you're going to tax the top 1% more I mean you know how much of that a problem that really solves that that's that's like going to you know to Mount Everest and you're it's a bad analogy it it's a drop of it's one raindrop of water in an ocean so like I don't want to even talk or even debate that issue because it's taking the focus from what we really need to be talking about to something that's just irrelevant at a national level so if I was trying if I had a tax policy that that I thought was unpopular then I would talk about something like that something that's meaningless it affects a small amount of people so like I just for for me that is not where I want to spend my time or effort and uh I don't want to spend political capital on something that's so small but I do Wonder really how that I I have a belief that that substantially negatively impacts the United States on the global stage because tell about it because it it it it unduly inhibits individuals going abroad taken post abroad because why do you want to get stuck with double Taxation and then it makes hiring a US citizen very uncompetitive in low tax jurisdictions so I I I personally think it's a big issue but I completely get your point well if if it is I'm just talking dollarwise so if dollar-wise that becomes to be something Subs I believe in Wise incentive-based laws and so if you want people to go abroad then make your policies and tax structure support that if you don't want people to go abroad then don't have your tax policies and structures support it it's that simple so the problem that we have with government is that they incentivize you to be indolent do nothing and not be productive and so so the the one of the main themes that the government has to figure out is that is one the role of government which is to ensure the blessings of of of of Liberty and and property to to us as Citizens it's not to take care of everybody that's not the role of government in my opinion so because when the when the role of government becomes we're going to take care of people who can't take care of themselves you just incentivized everyone not to take care of themselves right so I I know I know I'm saying it on a large level I'm not saying you know I don't want to be quoted out of context there but it's the same the same thing if I want people to encourage them to that foreign investment abroad because I think that's what's in the best interest of the country then I want a tax policy that supports it if I don't want people abroad then we don't want a tax policy that supports that so to me that's a policy that can change with the time depending on what the United States feels like is in its best interest how about Doge the department of government efficiency is that something that you think can move the needle I mean you've been outspoken about how our wasteful government spends too much money runs wartime deficits in a time of really economic Prosperity so what do you think about that look I think if Elon Musk gets in there and he's like made the the head of the the head of efficiency for the government the question is how much power is he going to have so he'll have the authority to do what so because one of the things that people don't talk about right now is the the power that the Deep state has right the Deep state is just the big Pockets who control politicians myON the Deep state does not exist my my interaction in DC which which is pretty a decent amount at this point is that politicians first and foremost are looking out for their own best interest it's what I said earlier they want to enrich themselves politically and financially they are so the the issue is is like when when Boeing is coming and meeting before a committee is that politician if they're on a whatever committee they on energy are they actually interviewing for their next job right so uh what what what kind of perks are their relatives getting so um then they're going to pull their constituents and if their constituents if they think it's going to make him become unelected then it's going to change how they vote so it was frustrating for me the conversations I had with several of people with in DC who had to go take a poll to see if they were for the thing and they couldn't just say whether it was right or wrong inherently they had to go take a poll to see if it was a big enough issue that it would affect him in the next election and I I just want to say that I think an exception of that's Utah's Senator Mike Lee so like he he's very insirational to me and I I've seen him make decisions that were extremely ethical and that that's I saw him do it before I ran too and I thought wow that's the first time I had an epiphany that said you could be in public office and and be honorable and uh and I think he's that way but so again the question your your question was do I think it would work it depends how much Authority they have sure the other way the Deep State controls things is through the administrative state so one of the big mistakes I think people talk about is they talk about term limiting members of the House and Senate at the federal level but nobody talks about term Li term limiting all the administrators so i' I've talked to members of the house that were working on bills that they didn't re us house that they didn't realize that there was some woman on some committee that was a gatekeeper and and be because they didn't even know that for a year and a half into their two-year term that they just couldn't get any traction and so it's a powerful thing for the Deep state or for whoever and political power to control the administrative State cuz think about that if if I if I brought out the laws that were passed by the the US House of Representatives and and passed by the Senate and signed a law by the president it's going to be a stack of paper that's about I don't know 10 to 12 in high but if I get out the Federal Register those are regulations that have The Binding effect of law that were that were just enacted by some unelected bureaucrat that you didn't elect you don't know their name and they can to have their position forever just for last year it'd be 10 to 12 ft high so that means somebody can sit around with a firearm let's say and say you know what if the if your weapon that you already own if it has two if it has a couple of these things on it it's a felony and now you would go to prison and be a felon for the rest of your life for someone that you didn't elect mean my memory is we fought the Revolutionary War over that so I think it's just despicable that we've allowed unelected people to actually be making our laws in the form of regulations and pretending like it's something else and so there's such a deep power behind it that when you say could this office of efficiency work that I would come back the business mind in me comes back and says how much Authority they have how much money do they have to Market those efficiencies cuz you know that fake media and other and and and other sources are going to be marketing against it and so it's going to be how far can you push the political pendulum to make spineless politicians spineless career politicians fear for their jobs and that's really unfortunately what what I saw a lot yeah I mean the thing I I'm for that I'm for the efficiency I'm for reduction of waste me too but what I do worry about in that balance is given how much fiscal stimulus that the government is currently pumping out in order to prop up the economy through you know of course the inflation reduction act which we know is uh not so aptly named whether that's also the chips act or the infrastructure act but there is that worry that if they did pull back to a certain degree that it could actually slow the economy to a point that isn't necessarily healthy you know going forward but adjustments need to be made clearly well Nate so here we've come to it so like why are you letting a private bank artificially inflate the economy and TR and control everything that way like why is that the case shouldn't it be normal that sometimes in economic cycles that you have downturns so in 2006 2008 when the federal government dished out however many 100 billion in stimulus so what what did that do it taught people that you can do criminal things and make bad decisions and not pay the consequences for it it's what I said earlier how about we match the consequences and the incentives so that they match what what what about the whole generation of people from that era that also see that there aren't consequences for what you do I think it would have been much healthier for America if we suffered a little bit and felt it's the cleansing that capitalism provides you need to feel the consequences because you're going to pay the piper at some point so I'm not afraid of the country going through economic cycles and having a rough time I think it's healthy and I think in the long run it's in everyone's best interest it's just so easy for someone to come in behind me and say Do You Hear What Walton said he's okay for the bad times say I'm saying that like it is healthy to have normal economic driven Cycles sure it's healthy and it makes you make better long-term decisions for people for families for businesses and for countries and when you don't do that then I think that that you're you're you're actually planning for some dark days I think the example that you're providing during the global financial crisis when you had those bailouts when you had that money printing I think that actually seed the seeds for the younger generation distrust in capitalism because that's not capitalism right and so what that does is it allows the wealth Gap and wealth inequality to actually widen because the people who would have been removed from their assets at that point are the wealthy asset holders right and so it's very anti- capitalism but it's caused this distrust I think yeah you know what this is why now that my campaign's over it's fun to jump back into our industry because I'm telling you this is the pulse in the heart of the United States of America like it does not get better I if I had to do my career all over I would do the exact same thing it is an it is the service industry and the pest control industry in general to me is is as honorable and as pure and as a noble profession as you can have and and uh yeah I think I I think look what we were doing as an industry why the country was going through turmoil and we we we are literally the pulse of the United States so I want to I want to jump into that here Pest Control you're kind of one of the ogs of the pest control space you got the gray hair is the gray hair you're making fun of me all right just I mean but you know so many folks in this industry attribute a lot of their success to you I mean even David Royce talks about it publicly like you staked him back in the day you inspired him allowed him to go on to do a lot of great things uh but he's not the only one so there's a lot of guys um but you run Moxy which is roughly what 200 50 million in Top Line now roughly give that's bigger yeah okay yeah we're doing I think we're doing pretty safely over 25 million a month right now okay this year I think we'll we'll be since I think we'll publish it it'll probably be more like 280 for the for calendar year 2024 but you you've done something that's not entirely unique but is quite unique in that you've got a variety of different partners around the country that are running various different operating businesses and so how did that how'd that model begin well at the beginning when I started MOX out all of it and the way the model actually began is my son Joshua was born really prematurely and uh um he didn't get any steroid shots he's now 22 and so he suffered some very serious brain injuries four of them in his first couple weeks of life and they were serious enough where when he was in the neonatal unit all of his doctors and nurses sat us down there was 13 of them because you have different shifts working in 8 hour shifts around on the clock and they told my wife and I to take them off life support but not unitedly one at a time and it was already bad enough where they would come to us in his first week oh more than once a day and say he's probably going to die in the next 20 minutes it's very stressful situation had two little girls at home and so we didn't take him off life support two weeks later they sat us down a second time and they one by one again went around and told us to take off life support again now this something to just put note he was born through an an emergency emergency cesarian and so my wife was recovering from major surgery we had two little girls at home we had our company that was you know exploding and doing quite well I stayed the night in the hospital every night through that period of time and not I I mean he was in the NICU four months and I think we I I was I missed maybe four nights but the first two months zero so I knew all the doctors and nurses pretty well and the second time they sat me down they one of them called me an inhuman monster one of them said um you know I've been calling and sick I'm not really sick I just can't be made to come torture your son and so it was pretty rough so you were the monster for keeping the child alive that's right yes that's right and so like and um and they really were it really was hard for them because they thought they'd seen it a lot and kids like him don't usually survive they said that he would never be self-aware from the injuries he' suffered or be able to move and um so the leading experts that we talked to when he survived uh said you need to give him a structured therapy for 8 to 12 hours a day for three years minimum but Jason before you get to that so what actually made you not taking off life support I mean the the baby clearly had all sorts of issues so what what made you just say I'm not doing this I'm you call me a monster I'm I'm keeping on well I I mean I I you know I was trying I God number one so like I I felt I felt that the instruction that I had was that just was not God's plan secondly we' already had a stillborn son and we already involved in the community there where people were losing kids and um I I lost 48 PBS in 4 weeks cuz I was eating one meal today fasting praying for guidance on a daily basis and so like in in that I will tell you that the decisions in that mindset were very easy to make painful at the end cuz we got to the point where even my wife and her parents you know were we're not on board with that decision and so it was a it was a struggle it was a hard thing um but I thought look if my son if I could talk to him and uh in heaven so to speak and say hey do you want me to take you off life support I know you're if if if so I think it's going to wreck your mother I don't think that my my wife would have ever recover I think that when she got it recover I I think that she would have never forgiven herself that's what I think I think it would have been totally destructive to my family um that's how I felt strongly that that case and I think my son would have volunteered to this for the suffering for his mom and so that I just thought the decisions were pretty clear for me I I didn't really struggle that much with him to be honest with you so I I I felt very much guid and inspired of decisions need be made and then after they were made um my wife is the one that did it so we we sold all of our customers to Terminex at that time and then um in that interim to take care of people I started the shared ownership model that we currently have is a way of apologizing to people for fact that I was doing selling a business I wasn't wanting to sell and and then my wife took the lead and and for 3 years it was 8 to 12 hours a day of structured therapy 7 days a week and and then therapy beyond that that went until he was 20 like a lot a lot and and my wife's he's now 22 he um is a junior at Utah Valley University he's a political science major doing extremely well lives on his own totally independent was a was an intern a highly valued intern for Senator Mike Lee in Washington DC last year he's brilliant he has the best memory of any human I know and um and he's funny I mean he is just an amazing young man I wish he was here uh so you could meet him he's he he's air he's a miracle story and we're very blessed for that but that is also what shifted us to the shared ownership model is uh is during that time period which has been fortunate how great is it that you get to go you get to choose who you work with they get to choose you too yeah I have had the best career my partners are unbelievably great friends we we got to know each other through hard times to see how we respond in hard things before we chose to be partners and we we all the time when we get together we were just in Cancun for an operation Retreat 3 days ago we all got together said do we have the best career ever we love hanging out with each other we like each other and we've done great and hard and difficult things together and and I think that we've had a some modest bit in shaping an industry together and and uh I'm just truly blessed both with my son my wife my family and uh and my partners they're amazing have you seen his trips heard about I've heard about some of them Iceland Cancun I had two of them in Iceland in September then we had uh Iceland we just got back from and I was home like a few days and then St George all work trips not St George uh Cancun all work trips yeah those look like some great trips yeah well Dan Daniel Hedrick here is the one that heads that up puts that together he does a great job our chief operating officer so is there anything about your partner model Jason that you think's unique that's really created good incentives or a structure that's allowed it to be successful yeah the first one is we we uh we have incredible Partners so like the indiv the actual individuals I would take my partners and they are qualified to be the CEOs of major um corporations in any industry all of them and they run big segments I they run big businesses they're amazing so thing number one that who they were when I met them or at least invited them to become Partners was was something special two the refining experience of starting something from nothing and building it is a refiner fire and so it's made them develop into be a you know they have a lot of grit they have a they have a lot of Moxy rather and then and then number three um well I think those are the main those are the main two like those those two things are the main things I think that that uh that have shaped us into being successful did you know your partners for a number of years did they work for you before yeah yeah yeah all of them yeah goad as as it relates to people not not just your partners but throughout your organization there's a lot of different philosophies in Pest Control a lot of firms rely on great systems in order to really be efficient get the work done sell new business and then a lot of firms they're just all about the people the systems and the Sops could maybe come second where do you think Moxy is on that Continuum it's both and and and and I just totally challenge the concept that it's either or sure so the highest priority is the people meaning you can train people people in systems mhm you you can't train everyone but you can train people in systems you can't train people to like people so like you have to go first find the right people for the bus our business is about improving the quality of life of people it's our mission statement and so first and formost you have to like Thrive as a human that I'm not having a good day and I don't feel fulfilled unless I'm making other people's lives better and if you're not doing I I can't train you to be that way so you go find the people who are naturally that way and then you Empower them with systems and processes to support a natural strength that they have but like our first priority is to take care of bless the lives of the of the partners and with my partners and I the people that we work with yeah and then if you're taking care of the people that you work with then they're going to take care of all the people that in their stewardship and if done right then they take care of all the customers so the priority is that your priority is is to people for sure that's the priority you build systems around that and um that's what we've done and I think that it's well we're we're learning like you said we're growing pretty fast and our customers are pretty loyal the employees seem to stick around and like-minded people are attracted to each other and and uh yeah we we've like I said i' I've I feel as blessed in my career as I can imagine I can't I can't imagine having a better career and being in a better industry what were your aspirations for this business like 25 years ago since you bring that up when I first wrote the business model I wrote I wrote a business model to be doing between five and 9 billion in Revenue so that's what I did before I started and so when I when I sold it that was pretty tough when when my son was born um and I had a hard time re-engaging so really when I re-engaged with this shared ownership model with Partners the goal wasn't necessarily to get big anymore it was just to go help them get squared away to have great lives and then they just weren't content and they wanted to do more and then I'm like all right we'll we'll we'll dust off the Playbook and we'll bring it back out again and we'll K screaming they took you right well we'll see you know we'll see what happens but uh yeah we dusted out the old Playbook and and we're offing away it's it's a lot of fun but I mean it's the answer is by this point I expected to be bigger that's the answer when I got started it was in the interim there where I was sort of changing the direction but in the beginning I I'm way behind Pace I mean you pointed it out like if if this wouldn't happened with my son most a lot of the major people who started huge companies worked for me with no equity and so that all would have been happening under one umbrella so I definitely think we were we were on the right track in the beginning well what were some of your you know your biggest learning lessons over the years as you've built this right I mean not everyone's born to to grow these businesses and so you've had to learn a lot so what are some of the the bigger learning lessons you've had treat people right so there's no like it it defines success wisely so I love the seven happenss of high highly affected people so habit one be proactive habit two begin with the end in mind write your own obituary write what you think people would say about you if they had a truth serem and had to tell the truth and then live accordingly stop with this I'm going to become that person later no no do it now like right now and then surround yourself with people who are like-minded allow the gravity of humanity to attract people like-minded people are attracted so go ahead and put it out there what your value systems are what you will and will not do and yeah there's going to be talented people that that repels that's okay in the long run you're going to be happier and actually your culture is going to flourish uh because you're not trying to force something know trying to force a square into a triangle hole um so um you know beginning with the end in mind is is that one and then just realize I I'm My Own Creator I can go do whatever I want so I can learn from the people who went before me the people who are around me and I can reject the things I disagree with and then go do it on my own next you you um beat principles centered so have your definition of success be that I'm going to be true to and I if I'm going to be true my value my my actions are going to like reveal my values I want if someone's watching me and they know nothing about me to say this person's honest this person has Integrity this person's loyal this person's hardworking these principles that act in the world of human relations just like physical laws like gravity act in the in the physical world there are laws we can't maximize our our own happiness treating others badly just not the way it works so you you can't lie to your spouse or to your employees and and and be caught doing that and expect to have trust no more than you expect to walk off a cliff and not fall it's just not how it works and so if you can figure out what key principles you want to value and then and then say I want to make sure I'm valuing it first as a person and I'm going to actually make goals and make commitments to see that that's happening in my own life then I'm going to make it with other people in my family relationships and then in my organization and then I'm going to teach that and encourage it other people to adopt that similar philosophy within the organization when that happens something synergistic and wonderful happens and it spreads like wildfire that's there's no way that anyone could understand what I'm saying unless they've gone through it even if you're sitting in classes being taught it there's no way I don't think someone can grasp it without living through it um so the next thing is you you do need to grab some key people Talent you can't grow to a business our size without being able to get PE to be able to develop people so an entrepreneur is just going recreating their job over and over and over I was the first technician then I had to create the job description and how to do it I was the first service manager then I had to create the job description I was the first office manager I was the first collector I was first doing billing so you're constantly creating jobs pretty soon you're a regional service manager and then you hire someone uh then you're a branch manager and then a regional manager but it's you and then you're hiring your replacement and in my case I was doing it with my own money so I didn't have institutional money to come in and speed that process along and um there is no way that you can scale effectively in a long run with a healthy business unless you can five at least five people who continue have the ability to go beyond one or two levels of the Peter principal meaning Beyond being a service manager branch manager regional manager those are those are different skill sets and so if you don't if you can't find the right people it's not going to work the the problem is can you develop the systems and processes that will sustain that growth can you do it within the constraints of a budget and if you do that can you do it with people who have your same values and and can perpetuate your culture and if you do that then you run for the US Senate you try to bring that to the United States of America good that was good um as you've scaled what's gotten harder and what's gotten easier and then I'll just add one other question onto that how today can you use that scale to create a competitive advantage in your business all right which one you me do the first one first one first repeat it if you would what's gotten harder and what's gotten easier what's gotten easier are problems so for those of you who are business owners out here pesc do you remember the first time one of your people got an accident in a in one of your trucks and it was like the end of the world you're like scared to death thinking oh what's going to happen no one's injured but you're just terrified and um then now I love the quote business is problems yeah right and your your ability to effectively solve those defines your success that's exactly it so I have I have pretty thick skin and it's not just it's not just from that I've had I mean over the last I think we discussed this last three and a half years my my daughter took her own life s you know one it was over Christmas one year later my brother who is my creative director my best friend office next to him for 20 years on New Year's Eve over Christmas had a heart attack he's younger than me by a l and and and he's in his 40s had a heart attack and died and then 6 months later my dad had a heart attack and died in the middle of my campaign in May a month before the primary my mom perfectly healthy also died so that's a lot and so and and I know I'm not asking for anyone's pity or I'm not asking I'm not a tragedy story The Life That's happens in life I had great parents I love my daughter she loved me I love my you know my brother and I value that relationship I miss them deeply but like you got to cope up with something pretty big now to like Ru ruffle my feathers so like you know you have enough bad things enough things happen or you do enough hard things the definition of hard changes sure I I had an employee Named Dave one time kundig was his last name little guy and yeah he would challenge the biggest guy in the office let's kick each other with our Shin in the thigh until one of us quits and uh and he says let's put 20 bucks in escrow to they give it to me to hold and they go you kick first you have to use your shin though kick me in the thigh so the person would kick him I've seen him do this like 10 times he kicked the person once and it was over and and like they they're like how how do you kick so hard how did that not break your leg he goes well I'm a third degree you know black belt in what I do and I spent the last 14 years calcifying my shins by kicking things of increasing hardness so that there's a thin calcium layer over my shin bone if you kick me that hard your leg would break that that calcified layer that practice of knowing what you're doing I liken that to entrepreneurship over time where things that are hard you just become more Cal calcified your definition of hard changes things that I think that that most people would think are hard to to me not necessarily or sad or overwhelming those things change and your second question was how can you scaling to your advantage yeah how do you use scale today to your advantage other than you know amazing trips well I mean one of the ways you use it to your advantage is I find that it's easier to attract really sharp people if you have enough to like our offices are nice if you go into one of my pest or Pest Control branches they're like high-tech offices and so when you can afford to afford to invest like that you can attract some sharp Talent there was a time in my San Diego Branch alone where I looked around the office and between the managers and the 13 people answering the phones there was one person who didn't have a graduate degree fouryear degree plus Masters or PhD you know we've paid for a lot of people to get their mbas we have several people who are attorneys that have worked with us not even as attorneys just in operations so scaling allows you to be able to hire sharper people those sh sharper people are able to help with your systems and programs and training because they're it just changes the culture and then that continues to attract like-minded people so I think that's one of the things that that that that scaling is done a question you didn't ask is like but it's kind of akin to it is how does scaling help the world so and that's why I'm trying to get involved I want to Rally the pest control people around to get more people to run for political office in their own States and also run people if you're like me you never thought of running for office but you have a lot to say and complain about then give me a call I'm easy to find and let's get you in the US House of Representatives are in your state like I want to put together a Consortium and go get people who didn't want to be in politics don't care if they get voted out of office but they want to save their country and save the Constitution save their families preserve the way of life that that we have all benefited from like that I have so so scaling has allowed me to I think not just help our company and me but I I think it's allowing me to to to give back and that's the last that's that's the chapter that we're heading into now Paul what do you think are you going to run for office I will not I'm unelectable fact are you I'm sure I am and plus I yeah people want the truth you know I can't even I live in Puerto Rico I can't even vote in the presidential election coming up now that's easy to solve it's it's expensive but it's easy I have some Tax Strategies for you appreciate that so Jason you're post now you're getting deeper into politics here you've talked about potentially the governorship yeah yeah that's open I'm I'm I'm open for all of it so Spencer Cox is currently the governor of the state of Utah um I think he's announced that he's not running again but it wouldn't matter to me if he was if if he if he actually was the main Contender I I I would run probably uh whether or not I'll do that though I I don't know so I'm still trying to figure it out I don't want to run for office for the sake of running for office so I there have been a lot of people in the state who've come to me say hey you should run for the US House or you should run for a governor or whatever whatever and I say what what are the objectives so like I need clear objectives of why me I don't just it's it's for me not to be with my family and with my company that's it's it's actually a it's a sacrifice and a cost for me to actually do it and so without really clear objectives of I can go achieve this I don't think someone else can do cuz if I think someone else could do it then why don't I just help them get elected it's easier takes less of my time so there were things in the Senate that I thought I uniquely could have done that would have been good for Utah and good for the United States of America let's talk about that give me an example of what one of those I could I could have been really effective in getting a lot of Utah land back and I could have been really effective in getting working toward a balanced budget amendment I could have been really effective in putting pressure on senators and members of the house to stop making voting decisions that made the government bigger and that started just basically mortgaging our great grandchildren with debt and so I could have done that because I have the ability to start my own pack financially and other packs that hit congressmen and Senators where it hurts and that is investing to if they don't vote right investing to where they would not be elected so and I think that I'd be pretty effective of raising if I was in the United States Senate raising a pack where I'd get other like-minded entrepreneurs uh to do that as well I think that I I think like literally I think our industry doesn't get this if the whole Pest Control industry and the service industry really United behind a pack you can literally go change the whole country enough money to do that let's talk about what does that mean break that down for us night be go get like five or six people elect to the United States Senate 12 or so elected to the house have them all self-funded people who don't care if they lose and then have a pack fund that's about $6 to800 million or a billion dollar and that you're saying and then in the beginning members of the House and Senate will come against you And when they see that you're undeterred the ones who aren't ethical principled whatever then you use your pack to put them out of office then everyone will start joining and voting they we can get a balanced budget amendment we can get Utah land back if it's not for Utah we can get a balanced budget amendment and do things that'll just be great for saving saving our country but like literally this home service industry alone could do that just nobody will do it because everyone feels hopeless but I've seen it I've seen behind the curtain you could I it would work I I'm I'm positive it would work in Utah though like look if you for those of you on the East Coast I'll just say this if you live in Texas Maine Oklahoma New York do you know how much land the federal government owns in your state it's 2% or less 2% or less so of the 34 states east of Colorado there's like three or four that the federal government even owns 5% that's it so how much Utah do you think they should own when I asked that to Congressman no one wants to give the land back when I say how much of Utah should they own they say 25% federal government owns 67% of Utah now the problem with that is every state has an enabling act when they're formed and it says the property taxes from your state or what's funding the schools they're just hurting kids Utah is a low population the east coast is happy to say no we need to preserve the Utah land I could break out a map right now I'm not talking about arches and Canyon lands and Zion National Park I'm talking about if you go to Utah County where I live there's nowhere to build houses put in a water treatment plan talking about hundreds of thousands of sagebrook brush Acres all over our cities where we can't actually do industry or move or have houses and who who loses for that kids kids lose you're hurting children and people aren't framing that issue very well so I would have the ability to go in probably put somebody out of office immediately just so they know I'm serious and then say I'm advertis I'm call 14 other Senators together say I'm advertising in all 14 of your areas for this thing if you don't come out and publicly support me in 30 days four of you won't be in office next time polite I'd say it more politely like a lot more politely right because I'm saying my my advertising is showing how it's hurting kids it's making it easy for you to vote for my advertising is going to make it easy for you to vote I'm I'm I'm not going to say it in a heavy-handed way I'm going to say it in a way where I'm helping you to make this vote and I think that that's the problem of what we're missing cuz I sound I know I sound aggressive on the stage but the the the problem we're doing is like when the when the far right what I'll just call the Fox News come out and pound the pulpit yell and call people names they're only reinforcing their own base and their own Silo you're not convincing anyone on the other side and the same thing on the other side the trick is just like in sales which is something we know to or think or do about is you to communicate with people where they are and how they'll receive it so if people have more of a pendency toward uh Marxism or fairness then you hit them with this isn't good cuz it's not fair look how unfair it is you're hurting kids does it seem like States should be treated so unequally and who is in the middle that gets hurt kids you do the same thing for a balanced budget amendment for families and for every issue that I think's right it's a matter of what the federal government's missing in the House and Senate and people who are good at marketing like especially the Republicans really bad at marketing and so you brought it up earlier the inflation reduction act literally that's how you increase infl inflation the Affordable Healthcare Act whether or not you agree with it it made Healthcare more unaffordable and so the left is pretty good at branding their things and what I would call or the opposite exact opposite yeah the exact opposite I I just think the right's not very good at that so so I think that I could do a really good job of putting together marketing campaigns on key issues that would actually move people yeah yeah I it'd be fun and I would love it it would be it that would be a blast but if you couldn't if you don't have specific objectives that you were trying to achieve then I have better things to do I mean I I I mean I I need to know like this this is my objective I'm going to go in I'm going to get this done that's winning that's Victory let's go do it without that then um yeah I I have a hard time going investing my own money in my time and sacrificing away for my family for that and I would think most people would argue back to this Governor versus Senate you know conversation most people would argue argue Utah has run much more effectively already relative to the US federal government so it seems like tell me so is that is that is that just something you're hearing or do you have some facts behind that because I live in Los Angeles California relative to California the federal the the the real tax rate per household in Utah is the 11th worst in the United States 11th highest every state above it's blue and many states below it are blue so you tell me is Utah Red State or is is that just the 11th Blue State so I mean if the people living in Utah certainly least don't don't feel that way you're they're being taxed High why because they don't own their land so they have to raise the income taxes on people because they're not getting the property taxes that every other state would get on their land right those states where they own 98% 95% again there's very few that's even you you give Utah 65% of our land which still makes us one of the bottom like six five then we don't have a we don't have those issues anymore um but yeah I think uh I think Utah is going pretty woke so if you're into woke then Utah is becoming a better place for you if you're not in the woke then then not so much and so um you know I I think that uh I think Utah uh I I I think that there's a good chance to get targeted by Soros and other people so the thing I'm actually working on now is I'm putting together a pack I'm getting together as you point out Paul I didn't know anyone when I ran now I know a lot of people so I'm I'm I'm talking with the you know the the the senators from Utah I'm talking the US senators talking with the speaker of the house the president of the Senate I'm talking with a lot of other political leaders and then the political people that I have I was fortunate enough to have them referred to me by Senator Mike Lee and they're they're pretty good like really good and so we're looking at what candidates we want to support for state school board State House State Senate and uh you know quite frankly if you did a good enough job with that then how would the governor get anything done if your people if if if if if you can't get through the house the Senate so you know we'll see what happens I mean um there's so many great people and good conservatives in the in the state of Utah and and you know what there's good people who aren't conservative too so like I I'll take anybody who's just trying to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do because we can to have a civil normal uh conversation not being a career politician myself but I think Utah is on a slippery slope and I'm I'm very concerned about it sounds like there's more work to do than I thought there is more work to do well Jason you've been an inspiration for many folks in this industry so we appreciate you joining us here today and best of luck to you in the future thank you it's been a lot of fun and uh and I hope I can't wait to see you guys I want I hope to visit you in Puerto Rico that open invite as I told you yeah thanks for all the good work you do in our industry and for just the awareness that you bring to the most honorable best industry uh in the United States thanks Jason thanks for joining thank you you oh