Interview with Kirk Crecco, Senior Vice President of Mergers and Partnerships at SavATree, recorded at the NALP Elevate Conference 2024 in Charlotte, NC. Discussion covers scaling a green industry service business by balancing acquisitions with organic growth, criteria for attractive acquisition targets (team, values, growth potential), aligning incentives and harmonizing pay plans after mergers, avoiding pitfalls in the selling process, and SavATree's growth plans including lawn care and new verticals. Also touches on Crecco's transition from professional basketball in Europe to private equity and business leadership. # Channel Presentation Observations ## Explicit Self-Description (Creator Claims) ### Channel Identity and Name - The host introduces himself as **Paul Jamore** ("hi I'm Paul jamore") welcoming new subscribers to a channel he calls **"Pomac TV"** (also rendered "patomic TV" / "patomic TV" in the transcript). - Claimed historical focus: > "historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential and Commercial Services business owners" ### Claimed Scope Expansion - The host states the channel is expanding M&A content: > "after the publication of the cellsite m&a master class last month my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests so Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the cell side as well as the buy side" - Planned content areas named: "the choice of process," "m&a Psychology," "buide practice approach and due diligence." ### Claimed Audience-Driven Model - > "this channel is largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us" - Calls to action: subscribe prompt, email distribution list link in description, and > "feel free to put a comment below on the types of things you want to see" ## Observable Presentation (Demonstrated Patterns) ### Interview Format - The video is a **long-form one-on-one interview** with a guest (Kirk, an M&A executive at SavATree), conducted at what appears to be an industry event (hashtags reference **#NALP2024**, suggesting the National Association of Landscape Professionals). - The host asks structured, sequential questions about the guest's background, deal strategy, transaction structuring, and industry advice. ### Demonstrated Audience - Content is pitched at **owners/operators of residential and commercial services businesses** considering growth or exit — evidenced by questions like: > "what is some advice you could give to folks out there who are growing their businesses... so they can ultimately exit at some point to a firm like sabber tree" - Seller-side guidance questions: > "what are some things that maybe you've come across that have been big turn offs where sellers are kind of their own worst enemies" ### Demonstrated Scope - Topics covered: private equity-backed roll-up strategy, M&A process and timelines, equity rollover structures, buyer-side diligence criteria, employee incentive/pay-plan harmonization, and post-merger integration — consistent with the channel's claimed M&A and business-operations focus. - The host demonstrates personal M&A expertise: > "so you've kind of taken the traditional path similar to me a couple years in Investment Banking then go on the buy side of private equity" and references a prior deal roughly 15 years ago. ### Presenter and Industry Connections - The channel appears connected to an advisory practice; the guest praises a figure referred to as "the Mexican" / "Franco" at "pomac" as > "a trusted adviser to a lot of his clients" — suggesting the host's firm serves sell-side M&A clients. - Hashtags in the title (**#PrivateEquity**, **#NALP2024**) signal topical positioning around M&A and the green/landscape industry. ## Notes on Distinguishing Claims vs. Demonstration - The **"viewer-driven channel"** framing and the **M&A master class expansion** are creator claims not verifiable from this video alone. - The **audience of business owners** and **M&A/business-growth scope** are both claimed *and* demonstrated by the interview content and questioning style in this transcript. # Delivery Observation: "Scaling Green Industry Businesses: M&A, Leadership, and Growth" ## Format Overview - **Interview-style conversation**: The host (Paul) conducts a structured Q&A with a guest (Kirk of SavATree), covering M&A strategy, growth, leadership, and incentives. - **Cold-open teaser**: The video begins with a quote from the guest before a title-card style introduction ("hi I'm Paul jamore I wanted to welcome our new subscribers"). - **Channel housekeeping**: Early delivery includes subscription prompts, email list sign-ups, and requests for viewer comments — a recurring hosting habit: > "for those of you who have not subscribed you can click below and subscribe to the channel" ## Tone - **Warm, casual, conversational** from both speakers; light humor appears at least twice: > "Franco's been a pure joy uh to work with" > "so that's interesting to Franco I don't even allow him in the office while I'm there" - **Enthusiastic and optimistic guest delivery**: frequent superlatives — "super critical," "truly awesome people," "really really fun to watch," "super fascinating." - **Empathetic framing** when discussing founder sellers: > "the business is that person's baby right so it's a huge there's lots of emotions that go into the decision" ## Vocabulary & Recurring Phrases (Guest) - **"Kind of like" as a filler/hedge** — appears repeatedly: > "kind of like in that Mountain West Region" / "it's kind of like in our Collective DNA" / "kind of like a fraternity of these different Business Leaders" - **Sports analogies** — basketball framing recurs: > "I always thought the coolest job would be to be GM of the Boston Celtics" and later "we call the dream team" / "take that ball and really really run with it" - **Relationship metaphors for deals**: > "it's a little bit like getting married right" and "it's a little bit like dating right how long does it take to get married" - **Repeated intensifier doubling**: "really really fun," "really really well," "really really matter." - **"You know" as a dominant verbal tic** throughout nearly every answer. - **Team/family vocabulary**: "family," "dream team," "team members," "ambassadors" used frequently when describing culture. ## Teaching / Communication Habits - **Numbered frameworks**: The guest structures advice explicitly: > "our number one objective in every merger is to retain all the team members... second initiative is to retain all the customers... the last thing is is a return on your investment" - **Concrete examples after general claims**: e.g., house-of-brands strategy followed by named companies (Stewarts lawn and pest in Utah; Lawns & Limited in Delaware). - **Analogy-driven explanation**: house-selling analogy for deal prep — "if you were to go sell your house right CLE clean up the house make it look good." - **Turn-taking**: Host asks short, specific follow-up questions ("what do you mean by performance gain share"), producing a Socratic pacing rhythm. - **Full-circle structure**: The opening cold-open quote reappears near the end ("picking a partner that you trust"), a deliberate framing device (uncertain whether scripted or edited, but observable in the transcript). ## Host Delivery Patterns - **Funnel questioning**: starts broad ("let's talk about you"), narrows to specifics (deal size, seller turn-offs, pay plans). - **Hypothetical framing device**: > "he put a gun to my head said what's it like working with the Mexican at pomac" - **Direct audience address** only in the intro segment; the interview itself is guest-focused. ## Stable Patterns vs. Isolated Moments - **Stable (well-repeated)**: "you know" fillers, superlative adjectives, relationship/sports metaphors, team-first vocabulary. - **Isolated**: the humor exchange about Franco, the basketball biography anecdote, and the Celtics GM dream — single occurrences, not habits. - **Uncertainty note**: This is a single conversation; filler frequency and metaphor habits are strongly evidenced here, but whether they extend to the guest's other appearances cannot be determined from this source alone. # Observation Record: Scaling Green Industry Businesses — M&A, Leadership, and Growth (#NALP2024 #PrivateEquity) ## Participants - **Paul Jamison (host, Pomac TV / "Pomac")** — interviewer; notes his own background ("a couple years in Investment Banking then go on the buy side of private equity"). *(Speaker surname rendered as spoken in transcript; identification based on transcript self-introduction.)* - **Kirk (guest, SavATree)** — leads M&A strategy; joined early 2022. Full surname not stated in transcript. --- ## Channel Intro Remarks — Paul Jamison - Announces expanded M&A "master class" content (sell-side and buy-side) driven by LinkedIn demand after the sell-side M&A master class. - Plans topics: choice of process, M&A psychology, buy-side practice approach, due diligence. - Encourages subscriptions and email distribution list sign-up. --- ## SavATree Company Profile — Kirk - Origin: **one location in Bedford Hills, New York**; started as a **plant health care company** addressing **spongy moth caterpillar** damage in Westchester County. - **Paul** recalls meeting Daniel van Starberg ~15 years ago and estimates ~$40M revenue around 2009–10. - Current scale (per Kirk): **~115 locations, 36 states, one Canadian province**, "quickly approaching a half a billion dollars in sales." - Service evolution: - Customer survey asked what one additional service clients wanted → overwhelming answer was lawn care → lawn care added. - Through mergers, additional services adopted from partner companies: **irrigation** (some markets), **tick and mosquito**, **holiday decor/lighting** (from Swingle merger; now in 13–14 locations), **design/install** (Martha's Vineyard, Charlotte). - Market philosophy: treat each market as its own individual business; be flexible on services to improve value proposition. ## Kirk's Background - Investment banking → ~5 years in **thesis-driven private equity** (fast food — Wendy's, Papa John's; Dogtopia doggy daycare; car wash platform). - Joined SavATree **beginning of 2022** (~2.5 years at time of interview) to accelerate the M&A strategy. - Former college basketball player; played two seasons in the UK, one in Luxembourg; aspired to be "GM of the Boston Celtics." He draws the analogy: his current role is recruiting the "dream team" of talent, just in arboriculture and lawn care. - **Why leave PE for a portfolio company:** wanted to be entrepreneurial, travel, learn founder stories, operate at a "micro level" rather than "40,000 foot" view, and feel part of a team adding value. --- ## Acquisition Strategy — Kirk ### Dual-track growth - Goal is both organic and inorganic growth; claims execution is going "very well on both." ### House of Brands evolution - SavATree remains the **single national arboriculture brand**. - New **parallel lawn care strategy** started ~6 months before the interview: partnering with premier regional lawn brands, distinct from the SavATree brand. Rationale: recurring revenue and customer dynamics. - Named platforms: - **Steuarts Lawn and Pest** (Utah; three locations, Salt Lake City; Mountain West anchor). - **Lawns and Limited** (Delaware; founded by Ed and Jeannie Fleming; Delaware beaches market). - Future: opportunistically add recurring services (tick/mosquito, irrigation); SavATree "morphing" into a house of brands. ### Target profile - **First and foremost: the team/leaders** — entrepreneurial, growth-oriented, "fun people to work with." - **Values alignment** — likened to marriage; core values built around employee engagement, customer experience (net promoter score), and sustainability metrics (safety, environment, economic sustainability). - Strong **reputation with customers** (retention rates, KPIs). - **Markets with growth runway** — SavATree has built a **shared services platform of ~150 team members** (marketing, IT, finance/accounting, talent acquisition, HR) to support partner companies. - Advice to sellers: "get your house in order" — regulatory compliance, equipment condition, general cleanup before a sale. ### Growth-rate question (Paul) - Kirk: growth rate is **a function of company size** — small companies can grow 25–30%; mature companies must get creative. SavATree is **not shy about slower-growing companies** if slow growth stems from an owner's unwillingness to bear capital-allocation risk alone; in SavATree's model risk is shared. - **Deal-size range:** historically $3–4M revenue minimum; now open to **$1.5–2M revenue** companies believed able to reach $4–5M quickly (building redundancy into systems/teams). Overall range observed: **under $1M up to $10–15M revenue**. ### Deal process - "A little bit like dating — how long does it take to get married?" - Fastest: **closed 75 days** after first meeting. - Others: relationships built over years before timing was right. - Claims SavATree passes on **~100 opportunities per one consummated deal**. - Reputation emphasis: "bad news travels faster than good news"; tight-knit industry with peer groups and events; aim to be "partner of choice." ### Seller equity and structure - Sellers **can roll equity**; supported by "interesting technology" (enabled by partner **Apex**) allowing **key non-owner team members** to retain/participate in equity — described as highly valued by owners. - **Full-retirement sellers:** Kirk says SavATree is a "flexible partner"; will transact with owners exiting, but notes it is **"very difficult to mirror and mimic the energy that an owner brings"** — wants either internal team members ready to step up or an existing SavATree operation nearby. Some owners transition part-time; equity holders remain "part of the family" regardless of employment. ### Founders' emotions vs. prior PE experience - Biggest difference from his PE deals: targets are **founder-led**; "the business is that person's baby" — requires empathy for the emotional decision process. - SavATree declines deals where it doesn't believe it can add value, even for great businesses — reputation as a value-adding partner depends on it. --- ## Seller-Side Advice — Kirk (responding to Paul's prompts) - **Trusted advisors matter:** surround yourself with people experienced in **similar-size transactions and founder-led dynamics**; don't rely on advisors without that experience. - **Trust over documentation:** you "can only document so many things" in purchase/employment agreements; trying to solve every scenario means never reaching the altar. Pick a partner you trust to work collaboratively after closing — this also smooths the deal process itself. - Paul's related framing: pick a **sell-side attorney** carefully. *(Kirk's answer on trust above responds to this.)* ## Business Growth Advice — Kirk - **"It's all about the people... starts and stops with the team."** - Over-invest in the team; be present morning and end of day; throw company parties; model desired behavior; create inspiring vision. - Customer experience flows through team members. - **Incentives:** - Incentive programs for "basically every position"; opportunities to advance given company growth. - Pilots initiatives at different locations; changes incentives when stale. - **Performance gain share** program: piloted in 25 locations last year; essentially profit sharing tied to efficiencies vs. plan — cost efficiency and productivity, not just top line. Bonus formulas also include **safety initiatives** (preventing "gob backs"/callbacks). - **Total rewards analysis (pay-plan harmonization):** - Every merger includes comparing every bucket of team-member value; commitment that everyone is **"whole or better off."** - Merger priorities in order: **(1) retain all team members/talent; (2) retain all customers** (facilitated by #1); **(3) return on investment** — with a long-term view: "if you get number one and number two right you'll generally get number three right in time." ### Post-acquisition planning - **Collaborative three-year growth strategy sessions** with target leaders; literally whiteboard future state, growth initiatives, and roadblocks together. - Not a top-down "grow 20% and improve margins 500 bps" mandate; the whiteboard is referenced at later decision forks to stay aligned on the jointly set outcome. --- ## 2025 Outlook — Kirk - Keep building the "dream team": owners who still love the business, want resources/capital to invest. - Continue arboriculture strategy; **major new energy and momentum toward the lawn care vertical**, applying SavATree learnings. - Opportunistically add recurring-revenue services (tick/mosquito, irrigation) as the house of brands expands. ## Lighter Exchanges - Paul jokes about "the Mexican" at Pomac; Kirk calls him "a pure joy," a trusted adviser, and someone enjoyable to spend time with. Paul jokes he doesn't "even allow him in the office while I'm there." --- ## Notable Qualifications & Unresolved Points - Kirk's revenue history figures (~$40M in 2009/10) are **Paul's recollection**, offered tentatively ("I think"). - Pass rate ("100 opportunities for every one") and location/state counts are Kirk's characterizations without cited evidence in the transcript. - Tension preserved: SavATree both courts growth-oriented founders and also acquires slower-growth or full-exit businesses — Kirk presents flexibility as intentional rather than contradictory. # Speaker Attribution & Provenance Record **Video:** Scaling Green Industry Businesses: M&A, Leadership, and Growth | #NALP2024 #PrivateEquity **Video ID:** `01a168c8-28ab-75e9-bf74-e2bf319aed97` ## Speakers & Roles - **Paul Jamison ("Paul Jamore" per transcript spelling)** — **Creator / Host** - Self-introduced: *"hi I'm Paul jamore"* — welcomes subscribers, hosts the channel (Patomic/Pomac TV). - Conducts the interview, asks questions, closes the conversation. - Note: transcript spelling of the channel name varies ("pomac TV," "patomic TV"); identity uncertain beyond what is stated. - **Kirk (surname not given)** — **Guest / Interviewee** - Identified as an M&A executive at **SavATree ("savry" / "sa tree" / "save a tree" per transcript)**, joined early 2022; prior background in private equity (~5 years) and investment banking. - **"The Mexican" / "Franco" / "Dylan"** — **Referenced third parties** (not direct speakers) - Dylan — mentioned as co-host of planned M&A master class content. - Franco ("the Mexican" at Patomic) — referenced approvingly; a promotional/testimonial exchange occurs here (see below). - **Daniel van Starberg** — **Referenced person**, SavATree founder-era figure Paul says he met ~15 years ago on his first SavATree deal. ## Promotional Segments (Flagged) - **Channel intro:** Paul promotes subscriptions, an email distribution list ("link here in the description"), and references a prior "sell-side M&A master class" publication. - **Mutual endorsement exchange:** Paul asks Kirk *"what's it like working with the Mexican at Patomic"*; Kirk praises Franco as a trusted adviser. Host jokes about Franco afterward. This segment promotes the host's advisory business. ## Provenance & Source Inventory - **Companies/entities referenced:** - **SavATree** — arboriculture/lawn care company; guest's employer; ~115 locations, 36 states, 1 Canadian province, "quickly approaching a half a billion dollars in sales" (guest's claim). - **Apex** — referenced as SavATree's private equity partner (guest's statement). - **Steuarts Lawn and Pest** (Utah, 3 locations) — recent merger, guest's claim. - **Lawns & Limited** (Delaware, founders Ed and Jeie/Jeff? Fleming — transcript garbled) — recent merger, guest's claim. - **Swingle** — prior merger source of holiday decor/lighting services. - **Wendy's, Papa John's, Dogtopia** — prior PE investments described by guest. - **Third-party claims:** All business metrics, deal terms, and strategy descriptions are **guest's unverified claims** (e.g., 100:1 pass ratio on deals, 150 shared-services staff, 75-day fastest closing). - **Event context:** Hashtags indicate **#NALP2024** conference setting; guest references an imminent next meeting. ## Comment Availability - **Comments explicitly invited:** Host instructs viewers to *"put a comment below on the types of things you want to see"* — indicates comments are open on the platform. No other metadata supplied. picking a partner that you trust is going to do right by you and work collaboratively and understand your perspective is super critical and I think also goes a long way into making the actual deal process smoother because then everybody is in a in a position where they all better understand kind of like any concerns or worries that the other side might feel in that given moment hi I'm Paul jamore I wanted to welcome our new subscribers to the channel you know historically pomac TV has been focused on business and operational information and interviews for residential and Commercial Services business owners but after the publication of the cellsite m&a master class last month my LinkedIn inbox has been inundated with a variety of different requests so Dylan and I will be sitting down filming more extensive m&a master classes both focusing on the cell side as well as the buy side I intend to talk about the choice of process delving deep into m&a Psych ology uh as well as extensive buide practice approach and due diligence for those of you who have not subscribed you can click below and subscribe to the channel furthermore we've provided a link here in the description where you can get on our email distribution list and if you do that you'll receive an email right in your inbox with our latest Publications feel free to put a comment below on the types of things you want to see I mean this channel is largely driven by you the viewer and what you want to see from us again thank thanks for joining us here at patomic TV Kirk it's a pleasure to have you here today thanks so much for having me great to meet great to meet you absolutely so it's been a long time I I met Daniel van starberg I think 15 years ago is when I worked on my first deal with sa tree but it's a wildly different business now I think back what was it maybe around 2009 or 10 I think he was maybe doing 40 million in Revenue let's talk about what save a trees up to today yeah it's been uh I mean what an incredible growth story right um from having one location in Bedford Hills New York and having expanded Up To Boston down to DC um you know we continue to lead with arbic culture um you know we're an arbic culture company so plant Health Care uh General tree care um where we've grown so much that at this point we've become a national company so we have about 115 locations across 36 States one Canadian province uh quickly approaching a half a billion dollars in sales um so it's just been it's been really fun to have joined uh the journey with all the team members that have uh you know been on the team prior to my joining and then and then also all the talent that we've continued to bring into the team has just been really really fun to watch so it's primarily a high-end Arbor care business but also even back in those days sa tree was doing some lawn care so what's could you give us kind of a general breakdown maybe proportion um of each different service line yeah so so we um we started as a planed health care company um you know essentially saving trees from the devastating effects of the spongy moth caterpillar that was you know destroying a lot of the tree canopy in Westchester County New York uh introduced General Tree Care over time and then one of the things that we did was we surveyed our customer base and asked them if there's one additional service that we could take care of for you what would that be and the overwhelming response that we got was you know they were all looking for a lawn care provider that they could um deal with when when our Arbus were out on the property and so introduced um lawn care and then over time as we've brought additional Talent onto the team through our merger strategy in in most instances have embraced the strategy of the partner company and so along the way have uh picked up additional Services whether it's Irrigation in some markets uh we do tick and mosquito uh holiday decor and lighting which uh came to us through our merger with swingle um you know some some time ago we now offer that in 13 or 14 of our locations uh there's a couple markets where we actually do a little bit of design install Martha's Vineyard and and here actually in Charlotte so you know as we've uh grown I think we've become much more flexible to trying to figure out you know what strategies and services can we offer to improve our value proposition and to try to be a little bit flexible you know and and look at every Market as though it's its own individual business and try to give the customers what they're looking for in each of those those markets so I've got a lot of save treat questions but before I get into those let's talk about you when did you arrive at save a tree what do you do there and what was your background prior to that yeah yeah so so I uh was for enough to join the team uh in the beginning of 2022 so I've been on the team for about two and a half years uh got brought uh onto the team to really help accelerate the mergers and and acquisition strategy which I think svetry was already doing you know very successfully but looking to accelerate it do more of it faster um and so jumped at the chance to join the team you know I've spent about 5 years working in private Equity uh worked for a few years before that in investment banking when I worked in private Equity uh you know we were a thesis driven private Equity Firm and so spent a lot of time thinking about different Industries how to play those we ended up doing uh making a few investments in uh businesses that were pretty acquisitive so we were in the fast food business in Wendy's and Papa John's uh dog dog uh Dogtopia and the Doggy Daycare business we had a car wash platform that was pretty acquisitive um and I you know I I enjoyed those experiences those were all um super rewarding you know gave me lots of opportunities to learn about you know what makes up businesses and the attributes that make them attractive uh but wanted to jump into a situation where I felt like I was part of a team and actively you know adding value you know I always thought the coolest job would be to be GM of the Boston Celtics I was a big basketball guy growing up I played basketball in college and then I played in Europe for a couple years um after col I played uh in the UK for two seasons and then the first season I played in Luxembourg but one of the teams I played for was trying to qualify for an International Tournament so ended up bouncing around a little bit um but always thought you know GM Boston Celtics that's where I'm headed uh getting to see all the best much now huh well what's interesting is uh you know in my in in that role right you basically get to see all the best players in the league and try to figure out how do you get all those players is playing for your team right and then in my role today I basically do that but it just happens to be in arbic culture and and lawn care so when we think about our strategy it's it's really about building out what we call the dream team of trying to identify the best uh talent in the market that we really want to be in and try to figure out if we can come together you know with those different teams and put something together that everyone's excited about and aign on a vision for the future that everyone's really pumped to go out and execute on I mean so you've kind of taken the traditional path similar to me a couple years in Investment Banking then go on the buy side of private equity and then of course it was time for you to do something else and you find yourself now back on the B you're on the buy side but working for the portfolio company of a private Equity Firm as opposed to the fund itself uh why not just stay in private Equity why go out and do something like this at a portfolio company yeah you know it's um you know I was at this stage of life where I was really looking to you know be super entrepreneurial and get to travel the country get to see new places I always loved learning about the stories of business owners of Founders and this was a role where I would going to I was going to be able to do that and and a lot um you know when I worked in private Equity um you know you're sort of like looking at a lot of things at a at a more of like a 40,000 foot level and trying to find teams to back and in the in the role that I'm in now I was able to kind of get um further down in more of a micro level and then also so um you know be more entrepreneurial think about what makes businesses attractive try to figure out how do we build out a really great team where not only are we bringing people into our organization that our Legacy team members are super excited about but also put the new partners in situations and roles where we're having lots of fun and they're um able to capitalize on sort of like a new chapter in their own their own careers so saet tree now being a private Equity back firm is seems to be extremely focused on acquisitive growth right you guys are spending a lot of time money and effort going out doing deals um is there any particular area of the business that you're focused on doing deal is it tree care or are you looking to acquire additional capabilities out in the market service lines maybe that you're not doing now I know some have come in through deals before but is that is that a focus um yeah so so so the the goal of the business right is always to grow both organically and inorganically and I think we're executing very well on both of those parallel strategies and paths um you know we're as you think about the evolution of savry right we are a Solutions provider to our trusted clients out in the landscape right so that's part of why we've continued to offer um additional Services while our arborists are out there diagnosing what they see you know in the landscape um as we continue to evolve as a company one of the places that we're going and we we continue to evolve to is more of a house of Brands concept right so we've built this really wonderful and amazing us arbic culture business that is save a treat today uh what we've recently decided to do is continue to double down on some of these additional services that we like so much that we offer under savet Tre but merge with companies that actually lead with those services so one of the the the the spaces that we really really like because of the reoccurring nature of the revenue um and some of the the the Dynamics that we have with our customers is the LA Lawn Care space so we just about 6 months ago started building out a parallel strategy in lawn care where we'll start teaming up with some of the Premier brands in the space uh across the country and that'll be a separate strategy that is distinct from the savry brand so we're continuing to spend time in both arbic culture but then we also have a real focus on some of these more reoccurring services like lawn Deer Tick mosquito and over time savry will you know morph into sort of more of a a house of uh type of a company are you is your discussion Advanced enough to determine whether or not it'll be for example a national lawn brand or will you have various different Regional lawn Brands based upon the power of the brand in that market yeah so so on the lawn care side it'll be a little bit different from the savry strategy which is one real National articulture brand uh in the lawn care space it will be more of a house of Brands where uh in specific regions we identify a brand that we'd like to back in that region and build around and so we just recently merged a company out in Utah called steuarts lawn and pest which is a premier three location business um that's basically Ser servicing top to bottom in Salt Lake City that'll be the brand that we build around kind of like in that Mountain West Region we've got another brand uh in Delaware called Lawns and limited which is a really wonderful business started by Ed and jeie Fleming that will build around sort of like in that Delaware beaches market so we're at that stage uh in the strategy where we're looking for you know super talented folks that have this knowledge and expertise in the lawn care space that are excited to grow that that love the business that are sort of like at this interesting inflection point in their careers where they've built something valuable they want to take some chips off the table and start to drisk and diversify but continue to stay on and and and help us continue to to build this this vertical alongside um savry you know you talked about taking some chips off the table I mean is there anything kind of unique about how you guys structure transactions perhaps allowing do you allow sellers to potentially roll yeah yes so we do have a structure and we've got some uh some interesting technology that allows for not only owners to retain equity in the combined business on a go forward basis but also some of the key team members that they have that might not yet be owners in the business business and we found that that's been a really wonderful thing for owners to be able to introduce to their team members because it allows them to participate in all the growth and value that they're helping create and so we found that to be um you know super rewarding for a lot of folks that have gotten to participate in it so far and that's something that Apex really has allowed us to do as our partner which has been tremendous it's been awesome yeah when you look at acquisition targets yourself what are some things that you find what are attractive attributes of a Target and what are some not so attractive attributes yeah you know for us it's it really all starts uh with the team you know we are uh a super entrepreneurial organization we're really we're we are really looking for back leaders that uh we feel like would be a good fit and just fun people to work with right we're a growth company so we found that we tend to gel and mesh and align better with companies that are also growth oriented it's kind of like in our Collective DNA um so so that's that's sort of like first and foremost you know we have a set of core values that we've essentially built to business on that revolve around Employee Engagement the customer experience as measured through net promoter score and then we have some sustainability metrics that we're measuring all the time as it relates to safety the environment and then economic sustainability so for us it's super important that we find companies where there's an alignment of values right when you when you're transacting with a company it's a little bit like getting married right so you want to make sure that you have values that align well because as you you know go go along this journey together there's going to be lots of forks in the road where you have to make decisions you want to make sure that you're making those decisions you know in the context of having you know values that are align it makes it a lot smoother makes a lot more fun um so so aside from the team you know obviously we're looking for companies that have a really wonderful reputation for doing right by their customers um you know there's lots of different ways that you can measure that whether it's customer retention rates or other kpis uh we're looking for markets that we see lots of opportunities for growth you know we've built a pretty exhaustive infrastructure to be able to provide resources and support to all of the partner companies that we bring into our ecosystem after we make the investment we've actually got about 100 almost 150 team members that sit at our shared services platform at this point in time from marketing to it Finance and Accounting management we have a whole Talent acquisition team that's pretty wonderful HR you know so we've built out this exhaustive infrastructure to be able to provide resources support to these companies so we also try to identify companies where if we feel like you know they were just given a little bit more resources or more Capital to be able to make uh Investments that they otherwise might not be able to they'll be able to take that ball and really really run with it um so so being able to find markets where there's lots of runway for growth is also another you know key component and then look I think you know our recommendation to you know anybody that's kind of like considering um the next chapter in their careers and they're thinking about a transaction right it's everyone's got to be doing all the things to get your house in order right you got to make sure that you're in compliance with all the regulations all the laws you know make sure that your equipment is in good shape um you know all all all the things that you know you you can do that you know if you were to go sell your house right CLE clean up the house make it look good um you know some some of the stuff I think think are pretty no pretty much no-brainers but what about you know when you when you look at the E the economic fundamentals of a Target company what do you think about from a Topline growth rate perspective I mean is there a company that might be growing too slow that you don't want to get involved in is any of them growing too fast how do you look at that yeah well I think I think that the rate of growth often times is a is a function of the company's size right so so small companies there's obviously lots of unability to to grow 25 30% a year you know larger companies that are more mature you know need to get a little bit more creative about how you maintain that level level of growth to make sure that you continue to be attractive to those potential suitors that are out there when as you're thinking about a transaction um so it it really kind of like runs the gamut you know from from an investment perspective for us because we've built this infrastructure I mean we do merge with companies that are you know sort of like at the stages of their life cycle where they're still growing very quickly but we're not you know shy from shy shy to invest in companies that are a little bit slower growing because you know it might just be a function of the fact that you know the owners are having to make Capital allocation decisions um where they're just not willing to make some of the the bets and take on some of the risk because all of the liability and all of the risk is on their shoulders and in our model there's lots of different partners in savry to bear that risk and so we will you know evaluate the risks of some of those decisions together and then and then you know align on a vision for the future that we're all excited about and then and then go and then go execute on it what's a typical timeline for a transaction you know that's a good question it's a little bit like dating right how long does it take to get married that's always the the big question um you know we've had trans some some transactions where you know we met we met with owners and we uh hit it off and we we closed you know 75 days later uh you know just made so much sense for what they were looking for for what we felt like we could we could add as as value added Partners you know we we are incredibly picky uh sometimes I think because of how inquisitive we've been that does get lost on people a little bit um but it feels like you know we we probably pass on about 100 opportunities for every one that we actually end up consummating uh which is pretty incredible but but um you know it it all depends there's some some transactions where we've had a relationship that we've built with the owners over years and years and years and the timing just wasn't quite right and and for us I think it's always you know we want to put ourselves in the best position to be the partner of choice in the space where we're where we're operating right and and that comes to making sure that all the partners that we bring into the business are having a truly awesome experience that they're speaking highly of it that we're making good on all the promises that we made to them throughout the process and I think in my in my role you know it's it's become easier than I expected because we've partnered with some truly awesome people that have just really enjoyed you know having joyed this the the savry family they've told their friends about it um and even though it's a massive you know industry worth billions and billions of dollars you know it is a very tight-knit industry where you get lots of owners that collaborate and share best practices they meet each other at events like this peer groups and you know bad news travels faster than good news so we need to always be putting ourselves kind of like in the position where there's only good news that can be can be spoken about us as a as a partner what do you think differentiates save a tree from other potential AC choirs out in the Market at least in the eyes of potential sellers yeah look I think I think for us you know it's a big priority to make sure that everybody that we're bringing into the business is is is really enjoying their experience right and in order for a deal to make sense um you know they have to be super excited about the economics right which you you you guys oftentimes are helping people with and then the second component of a deal that really has to be there in order for it to work is everyone's got to be truly aligned on what it is that we want to build together what everyone's role is going to be in that vision and then and then actually go out and execute on it together and as long as both of those things have come together people are generally very happy with the out out comes so I think for us it's been um you know just a huge Center of focus to make sure that you know we recognize that all the people that we're bringing you know into our family I mean they're they're essentially going to be ambassadors for our business and if we do right by them the growth will just snowball through all the momentum of bringing you know different owners into the business at different times I'm going to ask you before the mxon goes for his next meeting he put a gun to my head said what's it like working with the Mexican at pomac Franco's been a pure joy uh to work with you know I think he's he's been a trusted adviser to a lot of his clients I think he's one of those guys that's uh very enjoyable to hang out with and spend time with and look you know work work takes up so much of people's time in their lives today that you might as well spend time working alongside people that you actually really enjoy you know hanging out with spending time with so that's interesting to Franco I don't even allow him in the office while I'm there right next um let me ask you you know so since you came on board save a tree I'm interested in you know I I think this is a different line of business than the types of deals you were doing historically there were some similarities that do Doggy Daycare you know what are some of the nuances you maybe have picked up up or some things that may have surprised you if any yeah look I think um when I worked in uh in in in private Equity that you know some of the transactions that we were doing were um you know a little bit larger the businesses were at a different stage of their life cycle than some of the businesses that we're transacting with today and as a result of that the founders of those businesses weren't always still involved right and so a lot of the businesses that we merge with today you know they're they're still founder Le uh the business is that person's baby right so it's a huge there's lots of emotions that go into the decision and I think you know being empathetic to some of those emotions and sympathetic to kind of like some of the stuff that goes on during the process of of just understanding and recognizing that is a huge decision right and we want to make sure that people are making decision for all the right reasons um you know we're try to make sure that we're also only getting involved in the opportunities where we feel like we can be a really great partner right there's lots of businesses that we've met and seen where they're great businesses um but if we don't feel like we can add value to them and have that owner you know in 6 months N9 months 12 months say wow savry has been a truly wonderful partner of helping me take this business to the next level look we're going to really have to think twice about whether or not we want to get involved in it purely because you know part of the equation about establ establishing reputation as a partner is being able to add value and help it grow and in all those things so I think that's probably the biggest difference is the companies that were uh transacting with here at sabit here are just at an earlier stage of their Journey than a lot of the companies that we were looking at when I was in private Equity that were doing $100 million of Revenue and and whatnot you know arbic culture specifically is a highly fragmented industry where there's lots of companies that are sort of like still at the earlier stages of their Journeys um and and you know that's part of why we've built out this infrastructure is to try to help them you know get to that $5 million level that's $7 million level at $10 million level because as the business grows the challenges that that business faces are going to change you know at every different stage and so we've always been big of trying to connect different leaders across our country our company with each other you know because if you're going through a challenge that you experien leading a $6 million business it might be very similar to what someone you know one of the peers uh in the business just went through and so having people collaborate and share best practices is one of been been one of the I think you know ways to also add value as as a partner and create sort of like a fraternity of these different Business Leaders so it sounds like there's a a little bit of a disparity in in transaction size uh today for you versus what You' maybe done historically what's the meaty part of the belt curve look like in terms of maybe revenue for your typical acquisition Target if you think back over the last couple of years what's that what's that range look like yeah it's it's a tree yeah yeah yeah so so so you know at a certain point in time we used to look for businesses that were of a certain size um you know3 million $4 million of Revenue and in the last couple of years we've become much more open to partnering with companies that are early at earlier stages of their life cycle and part of that is the infrastructure that we've built out so we've there's you know been businesses that we've merged with where they're you know doing $1.5 $2 million of Revenue but with a belief that we can quickly get those companies to $4 million $5 million of Revenue where you're starting to build in some redundant to the systems the processes the team members if you have team members that call out sick or something you know the day isn't shot um so so you know what I've seen you know businesses that are even less than a million all the way up to businesses that are doing you know 1015 million of Revenue is kind of like the range in which we've played since I've joined the the team is sabry an opportunity for sellers that really do want to get out and retire and not roll equity and not have participation going forward yes look I think it's a you know what one of the things I think that is unique about our strategy is we we're a flexible partner right I think our biggest hope is that when we're interacting with owners that everyone just be transparent about what it is that they're hoping to get out of the out of the partnership or out of the transaction and then allow us to reflect on whether or not we can actually be a value added partner in that situation you know if it's a if it's a business where the owner would like to to exit you know for us I think one of the things that we found is even if that owner is somewhat in the business somewhat retired it is still very difficult to mirror and mimic the energy that an owner brings to a business right all the employees have made this conscious decision to want to work for that person the business in a lot of ways is often a reflection of that person's character and personality so um you know we'll we will all you know we've transacted in situations like that but would want to be sure that there either members of the existing team that are open and willing and capable to basically be able to take more of a leadership role on or if it's a market where we already have an operation that we have a team that's confident and excited to take on some of that responsibility as well so you know a lot of what we do is teaming up with people that are still really in love with the business they want to continue to grow they want to continue to be part of it but that's not to say that we're we're not also at certain you know times uh merging with companies where the owner is looking to retire or looking for a path to retirement over time I mean we also have owners that will transition to part-time uh if they retain Equity regardless of whether or not they're still an employee or not they still are part of our family right so they're still a shareholder they're still getting uh plugged into kind of like what's going on at savry on a national level the different initiatives that we have going on um so it's it's a pretty flexible strategy um our biggest thing is just hoping that everyone's kind of like straightforward and upfront about what they're hoping to get out of it you know you know being at Sav tree you're focused on more kind of founder Le businesses that are ultimately selling and as you said you know being on the buy side it takes a great deal of empathy and being able to sit through I mean these are people that are very attached to their businesses so it takes patience on your side what are some things that maybe you've come across that have been big turn offs where sellers are kind of their own worst enemies dealing with guys like you yeah um you know look I I think um making sure that you know what whatever circle of folks that you surround yourself with during the process sort of like have experience in similar transactions I think is very important that you really trust the advice of the the folks that you're getting you know you don't want to you know lean entirely on the advice of someone that might not have you know might not have been through the experience themselves um so so making sure that you pick trusted advisors that have lots of experience with similar size transaction uh transactions similar size companies uh similar Dynamics as it relates to founder-led businesses you know all the small details that sort of like go into sort of like the deal process and and really I think you know the advisers go a long way and sort of like influencing the way that the process will will go what about picking being a sside attorney have you seen some FAS in that area for sellers yeah look I think um you know the the basis of every transaction has to be trust right I mean at the end of the day you can only document so many different things in purchase agreements and leases and employment agreements and um if you're trying to solve for every potential scenario that could come up you know we'll we'll probably never get to the altar right I mean it's just an impossible task to be able to solve for everything so I think that's why it's so important that you pick the right partner because at the end of the day you can't solve for everything in a in a legally binding document and there are going to be things that come up uh after the deal closes that you're going to have to work through it's just kind of like an inevitable part of every of every deal and so picking a partner that you trust is going to do right by you and work collaboratively and understand your perspective acve uh is this super critical and I think also goes a long way into making the actual deal process smoother because then everybody's in a in a position where they'll better understand kind of like any concerns or worries that the other the other side might feel in that given moment you've seen a lot of different business models and of course you've seen a lot of businesses in this particular industry what is some advice you could give to folks out there who are growing their businesses uh some advice as to how to grow a bigger better firm so they can ultimately exit at some point to a firm like sabber tree yeah look I think I think uh in our industry it's all about the people right it's it starts and stops with the team so making sure that you know you're cultivating an environment that is inspiring to your team members is going to go the longest way that is the biggest investment that you can make to grow your business uh creating the right incentives uh putting out a vision that everyone's exciting about modeling a type of behavior that you would like to see your team members emulate in certain instances I think that's um the number one thing that people need to focus on um and look you know when you are going along the way you're not going to be perfect right I mean there's been lots of things that we've learned at savry over the years and um you know but I think I think that at the end of the day is the most important thing because that the team members are going to be the people that give the customers what ever their experience is right so if your if your goal is to be you know the the preferred vendor for any customers in your Market well that start that starts and stops with your team members um so so so that that that's what I would recommend just over invest in your team all the time be there at the end of the day to greet them be there to thank them be there in the morning to pump them up for the day right all those little details really really matter matter throw that that company party to to thank them for all the contributions that they made over a quarter or over over a year you head on something that I find interesting you mentioned the word incentives so what comes to mind for you when you talk about that yeah I mean I think I think um you know giving folks goals that they can uh be excited to pursue with you know proper Awards attached to them is is I think an important part of of every business um you know I think those look very different depending on the role that someone is playing and kind of like the attributes that they need to maximize in order to be successful in their particular role but like at you know at our firm we've got incentive you know programs for basically every position in the company and we um you know we've tried to cultivate an environment where there's always going to be opportunities to advance if you're a team member that is looking to take on more and and work hard to to do that um you know for anybody that's been you know in in a position in the industry where they want to make arbic culture Agronomy uh lawn a career we've always tried to position our company as a place to do that and we're growing at a rate where there's just always going to be opportunities to take on more if if you've got people that want to do that um but the incentives I think are you know vary by level whether it's people in the office whether it's production team members out actually producing the work in the revenue management team members everybody's incentives look a little bit different and look I don't think there's any you know magic Silver Bullet right we we pilot lots of different initiatives at different locations to kind of like see what kind of reactions do we get and what kind of uh changes in Behavior do we end up getting from changing our initiatives we just rolled out a performance gain share program that we piloted in 25 locations last year the results were super fascinating to to monitor but I think you know also changing the initiatives as things feel like they're getting stale is also really really important as well and what do you mean by performance gain share could you talk about that a little bit yeah it's basically at a high level an an opportunity for team members to participate in some of the efficiencies that that particular business is achieving relative to whatever the plan is so it's it's sort sort of like a a form of of profit sharing essentially so so it's not only Top Line its actual cost efficiency is there as well yeah and being prod productive with everyone's time there's also uh aspects of some of our bonus programs that have safety initiatives initiatives trying to prevent Gob backs and sort of like all of that baked into formulaic math that then rewards all the team members who are actually successful and in carrying out the work based on all those different factors what's it like when you're trying to harmonize for example pay plans because different areas of the country in different service lines some are based on production some are hourly some some of the these guys are salary what sort of issues do you guys face with that um well look I think I think from a merger perspective you know our biggest thing is making sure that when we merge with a company we look at in totality the total benefits that they get as team members today so we do What's called the total rewards analysis and our commitment is that we need to make sure that everybody is whole or better off from the partnership and so we compare every single bucket of value that team members get as an employee and a team member of the Legacy business and then we show them what that's going to look like with us and we walk them through kind of like that analysis and what that analysis needs to show them is that they're going to be you know better off or made whole you know as you as a as a member of our team um because our our our number one objective in every merger is to retain all the team members and all the talent in the business second initiative is to retain all the customers which is often times facilitated by number one right as long as that customer used to see that sales person or those production team members that they're used to seeing out on their property you know that generally goes a long way in in maintaining that relationship and then obviously you know the last thing is is a return on your investment but we take a long-term uh View and approach to that so if you get the number one and number two right you'll generally get number three right in time when you guys looking at acquisition Target that you start to get serious about do you build then an internal business case for future performance for that particular acquisition and then you track that performance yeah so that's something that we do collaboratively with the leaders that we're partnering with uh of the target company so we we always like to do uh three-year growth strategy sessions with them and we will literally whiteboard on a whiteboard uh the future state of you know what do we think is possible in this market what do we think are some of the growth initiatives that we can experience together if we make certain Investments what are the some of the challenges in Road blocks that we think might come up as we go along on our on our journey together uh so this is actually a future state that we will come up with together so that's I think another unique part of our strategy is it's not like we make an investment in a business and we say okay now you need to go grow 20% a year and improve your margins by 500 basis points no our strategy is a collaborative strategy where we love it when the businesses that we partner with you know have already developed a vision for what they want to accomplish and then we can figure out okay what are the resources that we can provide them to help them get there either faster in a way that's less stressful in a way that puts less stress on the business um but it those are some of the most fun and most rewarding meetings and we will literally draw up the play together and then as we get to different Forks in the road where there's big decisions that we need to make we will reference that white board that we created together and we have to decide okay what decision that we're making right now is going to put us closest to this outcome that we had decided two or three years ago that we all wanted to accomplish um so so that's uh you know kind of like been our approach to it I think it's worked really really well I think it's also um you know gone a long way to making our new team members feel like they have this business that they can continue to really own the outcomes um for so you know that's that's kind of like been what's worked for us that's great I appreciate that I guess in closing Kirk you know what's your what's the m&a Department's plans for 20 you know 2025 is upon us right it'll be a new year what's kind of your high level goals and objectives for the company yeah so so we're going to try to keep building out the Dream Team right we want to continue to find uh folks that still really love what they're doing they want to take the business to the next level sort of like looking for more resources Capital to make investments it might be a little bit reluctant to make today uh we're going to put you know we're going to continue to execute on our strategy in the arbic culture world but you are going to see us uh with lots of more energy and momentum being oriented toward the lawn care space as we try to build out that new vertical and continue to um you know find really wonderful people that have expertise in that industry that we can learn from we can take all of the learnings that we've um experienced having built savry what it is today in the arbic culture world and apply those learnings to this new vertical and Lawn and find people that we can share those best practices with and collaborate with so I think you'll see us continue to uh build out that dream team continue to build out this new vertical in lawn care and we'll continue to also add um you know opportunistically some of these additional services that are reoccurring in nature that allow us to continue to do right by our customer uh visit the property frequently whether it's ticking mosquito whether it's irrigation uh you'll start to see us Venture more and more into these different spaces as we continue to build out a house of Brands that's great wellis I appreciate you joining us today awesome thanks so much Paul you are